Re: Reasonable deal for pre-ordering Ubuntu tablets

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I tend to passively watch what is discussed on DunLUG. I found this =0A=
discussion thread between Kathinka and Reece very informative. On one hand=
 I=0A=
am curious how it works out with Ubuntu tablets and I am even considering =
=0A=
ordering one. I can also relate to Kathinka's sentiments about user =0A=
interface evolution as I generally prefer old and tried. The comments abou=
t =0A=
blind and handicapped people however were the most eye opening to me, as I=
 =0A=
never contemplated them before. This could turn into a useful feedback to =
=0A=
all user interface designers indeed - do they want to exclude or include =
=0A=
such users? By discussing it we can make it an informed choice.=0A=
=0A=
I would like to offer my observation about the use of language. Coming fro=
m =0A=
abroad, I find New Zealand politeness sometimes paralysing a healthy =
=0A=
argument. In my opinion people here could learn a bit more of the raw =
=0A=
honesty, for example from Germans. Ability to deal with a disagreement =
=0A=
without taking it personally or as an offence, is a part of emotional =
=0A=
maturity. Sugar coating every word makes a communication unnecessarily =
=0A=
complicated. Though I understand that direct communication requires mutual=
 =0A=
trust.=0A=
Tomas=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
---------- P=C5=AFvodn=C3=AD zpr=C3=A1va ----------=0A=
Od: Chris Burgess <[email protected]>=0A=
Komu: Kathinka <[email protected]>=0A=
Datum: 2. 4. 2016 16:35:34=0A=
P=C5=99edm=C4=9Bt: Re: [dunlug] Reasonable deal for pre-ordering Ubuntu ta=
blets=0A=
=0A=
"=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
I joined this list because I've enjoyed using Linux for many years, and I =
=0A=
believe in the community & ideals of free software.=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
Being hostile about the choices of others, including their decisions to =
=0A=
contribute to projects we aren't part of, or to use software we don't use,=
 =0A=
is unlikely to contribute to helping others discover free software. Shall =
we=0A=
choose to not make that a part of DunLUG culture?=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
One of the great things about free software is that if you don't like it, =
=0A=
the cost of not using or contributing is also free. There's no need to be =
=0A=
rude about, or swear at, projects that you don't favour or entire groups o=
f =0A=
people (flesh or straw).=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
On 2 April 2016 at 09:46, Kathinka <[email protected]=0A=
(mailto:[email protected])> wrote:=0A=
"=0A=
=0A=
By golly Reece, it's a much wider issue than mere preference!=C2=A0 Thank =
you for=0A=
pointing that out=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
Where there has been a choice of how to display I have always chosen text,=
 =0A=
or icon + text. =C2=A0=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
It was IMO a mistake to go one size fits all.=C2=A0 Sure enough a phone ca=
n't be =0A=
made for touch-typing, and one wouldn't want to carry a mouse around to us=
e =0A=
with the smart phone.=C2=A0 Not however a good reason for downgrading tabl=
ets and=0A=
PCs to match.=C2=A0 Having one multipurpose "button" (e.g. touchpad) looks=
 clean,=0A=
streamlined therefore efficient. But to me it's like having only one sharp=
 =0A=
knife in a kitchen, the right size for some tasks, awkward and inefficient=
 =0A=
for others.=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
Kathinka. =C2=A0=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
On 2 April 2016 at 09:26, Reece Arnott <[email protected]=0A=
(mailto:[email protected])> wrote:=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
"=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
Short answer: yes.=0A=
Slightly longer answer: (my impression is) Canonical started moving in thi=
s =0A=
direction as they saw touch interfaces were going to be a thing but they =
=0A=
still wanted to users to have a similar experience even if they didn't hav=
e =0A=
a touch device. These tablets (and to a more limited extent the smart-phon=
e =0A=
I linked to) are really the first test of whether this sort of approach wi=
ll=0A=
actually work out.=0A=
=0A=
Similar sorts of experiments happened as the mouse became popular to =
=0A=
transition from pure keyboard driven interfaces.=0A=
=0A=
What I think is really going to be interesting though is how the minoritie=
s =0A=
are accounted for, eg. I have a friend who had his fingers burnt/melted in=
 a=0A=
fire and doesn't have a single whole one left. How is that going to be =
=0A=
accommodated? Not to mention the obvious problem how the blind are to use =
=0A=
such an interface.=0A=
=0A=
On 01/04/16 17:03, Kathinka wrote:=0A=
=0A=
" =0A=
=0A=
Is that Ubuntu the new (well, not really new now but I've avoided it) GUI =
=0A=
all pictures and scratch'n'sniff?=0A=
=0A=
I'm =C2=A0very non-visual and find icons a pita, have to mentally translat=
e them =0A=
into words every time, much prefer menus etc in words so as to save time f=
or=0A=
getting on with whatever I want to use the tool for.=C2=A0 Tough shit if t=
his =0A=
upsets designer types who want to impose their post-verbal art-ahead-of-=
=0A=
communication passion on us without providing an easy switch on/off to =
=0A=
accommodate language people as well as pix-ies.=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
On 30 March 2016 at 18:56, Reece Arnott <[email protected]=0A=
(mailto:[email protected])> wrote:=0A=
"Pre-notice notice: I just realised an hour ago that all the DunLUG messag=
es=0A=
for at least the last month have ended up in Gmail's spam filter. If you g=
et=0A=
this then you won't be affected but feel free to pass the message on.=
=0A=
=0A=
Two 10.1 inch tablets that come with the mobile version of Ubuntu are =
=0A=
available for pre-order.=0A=
https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition/=0A=
(https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition/)=0A=
See http://www.ubuntu.com/tablet/features=0A=
(http://www.ubuntu.com/tablet/features) for some details.=0A=
=0A=
There is also a 5 inch smartphone at the same store that has a significant=
ly=0A=
higher resolution camera for 200 euros: =0A=
(https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition-e5/)https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu=
-=0A=
edition-e5/(https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition-e5/)=0A=
=0A=
All say they come with Ubuntu 15.04.=0A=
" =0A=
=0A=
" =0A=
=0A=
-- =0A=
"Believing men would act in their own interest was not cynicism, it turned=
 out, but sheerest optimism; in reality men do not meet so high a standard=
."=0A=
-- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality (Chapter 84)=0A=
<a href=3D'http://hpmor.com/'>http://hpmor.com/</a>=0A=
=0A=
Reece Arnott=0A=
Dunedin=0A=
New Zealand=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
_______________________________________________=0A=
DunLUG mailing list=0A=
[email protected](mailto:[email protected])=0A=
http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug=0A=
(http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug)=0A=
DunLUG Wiki - http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/(http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz=
/)=0A=
"=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
_______________________________________________=0A=
DunLUG mailing list=0A=
[email protected](mailto:[email protected])=0A=
http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug=0A=
(http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug)=0A=
DunLUG Wiki - http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/(http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz=
/)=0A=
"=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
_______________________________________________=0A=
DunLUG mailing list=0A=
[email protected]=0A=
http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug=0A=
DunLUG Wiki - http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/"=
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	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body>I tend to passively watch what is discussed on DunLUG. I found=
 this discussion thread between Kathinka and Reece very informative. On on=
e hand I am curious how it works out with Ubuntu tablets and I am even con=
sidering ordering one. I can also relate to Kathinka's sentiments about us=
er interface evolution as I generally prefer old and tried. The comments a=
bout blind and handicapped people however were the most eye opening to me,=
 as I never contemplated them before. This could turn into a useful feedba=
ck to all user interface designers indeed - do they want to exclude or inc=
lude such users? By discussing it we can make it an informed choice.<br><b=
r>I would like to offer my observation about the use of language. Coming f=
rom abroad, I find New Zealand politeness sometimes paralysing a healthy a=
rgument. In my opinion people here could learn a bit more of the raw hones=
ty, for example from Germans. Ability to deal with a disagreement without =
taking it personally or as an offence, is a part of emotional maturity. Su=
gar coating every word makes a communication unnecessarily complicated. Th=
ough I understand that direct communication requires mutual trust.<br>Toma=
s<br><br><p>---------- P=C5=AFvodn=C3=AD zpr=C3=A1va ----------<br>Od: Chr=
is Burgess &lt;[email protected]&gt;<br>Komu: Kathinka &lt;kathinka.d=
[email protected]&gt;<br>Datum: 2. 4. 2016 16:35:34<br>P=C5=99edm=C4=9B=
t: Re: [dunlug] Reasonable deal for pre-ordering Ubuntu tablets</p><br><bl=
ockquote><div><div><div>I joined this list because I've enjoyed using Linu=
x for many years, and I believe in the community &amp; ideals of free soft=
ware.</div><div><br></div><div>Being hostile about the choices of others, =
including their decisions to contribute to projects we aren't part of, or =
to use software we don't use, is unlikely to contribute to helping others =
discover free software. Shall we choose to not make that a part of DunLUG =
culture?</div><div><br></div><div>One of the great things about free softw=
are is that if you don't like it, the cost of not using or contributing is=
 also free. There's no need to be rude about, or swear at, projects that y=
ou don't favour or entire groups of people (flesh or straw).</div></div><d=
iv><br><div>On 2 April 2016 at 09:46, Kathinka <span>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt;</s=
pan> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
 solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">By =
golly Reece, it's a much wider issue than mere preference!&nbsp; Thank you=
 for pointing that out</div><div style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br><=
/div><div style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Where there has been a choic=
e of how to display I have always chosen text, or icon + text. &nbsp;</div=
><div style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br></div><div style=3D"font-fam=
ily:georgia,serif">It was IMO a mistake to go one size fits all.&nbsp; Sur=
e enough a phone can't be made for touch-typing, and one wouldn't want to =
carry a mouse around to use with the smart phone.&nbsp; Not however a good=
 reason for downgrading tablets and PCs to match.&nbsp; Having one multipu=
rpose "button" (e.g. touchpad) looks clean, streamlined therefore efficien=
t. But to me it's like having only one sharp knife in a kitchen, the right=
 size for some tasks, awkward and inefficient for others.</div><span><font=
 color=3D"#888888"><div style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif"><br></div><div=
 style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Kathinka. &nbsp;</div></font></span><=
/div><div><br><div><div><div>On 2 April 2016 at 09:26, Reece Arnott <span>=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div>=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
<div>=0A=
<div>Short answer: yes.<br>=0A=
Slightly longer answer: (my impression is) Canonical started=0A=
moving in this direction as they saw touch interfaces were going=0A=
to be a thing but they still wanted to users to have a similar=0A=
experience even if they didn't have a touch device. These tablets=0A=
(and to a more limited extent the smart-phone I linked to) are=0A=
really the first test of whether this sort of approach will=0A=
actually work out.<br>=0A=
<br>=0A=
Similar sorts of experiments happened as the mouse became popular=0A=
to transition from pure keyboard driven interfaces.<br>=0A=
<br>=0A=
What I think is really going to be interesting though is how the=0A=
minorities are accounted for, eg. I have a friend who had his=0A=
fingers burnt/melted in a fire and doesn't have a single whole one=0A=
left. How is that going to be accommodated? Not to mention the=0A=
obvious problem how the blind are to use such an interface.<span><br>=
=0A=
<br>=0A=
On 01/04/16 17:03, Kathinka wrote:<br>=0A=
</span></div><span>=0A=
<blockquote>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<div style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Is=0A=
that Ubuntu the new (well, not really new now but I've avoided=0A=
it) GUI all pictures and scratch'n'sniff?</div>=0A=
<div style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">I'm=0A=
&nbsp;very non-visual and find icons a pita, have to mentally=0A=
translate them into words every time, much prefer menus etc in=0A=
words so as to save time for getting on with whatever I want=0A=
to use the tool for.&nbsp; Tough shit if this upsets designer types=0A=
who want to impose their post-verbal=0A=
art-ahead-of-communication passion on us without providing an=0A=
easy switch on/off to accommodate language people as well as=0A=
pix-ies.</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div><br>=0A=
<div>On 30 March 2016 at 18:56, Reece Arnott=0A=
<span>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]=
</a>&gt;</span>=0A=
wrote:<br>=0A=
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex">Pre-notice=0A=
notice: I just realised an hour ago that all the DunLUG=0A=
messages for at least the last month have ended up in=0A=
Gmail's spam filter. If you get this then you won't be=0A=
affected but feel free to pass the message on.<br>=0A=
<br>=0A=
Two 10.1 inch tablets that come with the mobile version of=0A=
Ubuntu are available for pre-order.<br>=0A=
<a href=3D"https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition/">https://store.bq.com/g=
l/ubuntu-edition/</a><br>=0A=
See <a href=3D"http://www.ubuntu.com/tablet/features">http://www.ubuntu.co=
m/tablet/features</a>=0A=
for some details.<br>=0A=
<br>=0A=
There is also a 5 inch smartphone at the same store that has=0A=
a significantly higher resolution camera for 200 euros: <a href=3D"https:/=
/store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition-e5/"></a><a href=3D"https://store.bq.com/g=
l/ubuntu-edition-e5/">https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition-e5/</a><br>=
=0A=
<br>=0A=
All say they come with Ubuntu 15.04.<br>=0A=
</blockquote>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</blockquote>=0A=
<br>=0A=
</span><span><pre>-- =0A=
"Believing men would act in their own interest was not cynicism, it turned=
 out, but sheerest optimism; in reality men do not meet so high a standard=
."=0A=
-- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality (Chapter 84)=0A=
<a href=3D"http://hpmor.com/">http://hpmor.com/</a>=0A=
=0A=
Reece Arnott=0A=
Dunedin=0A=
New Zealand=0A=
</pre>=0A=
</span></div>=0A=
=0A=
<br></div></div><span>_______________________________________________<br>=
=0A=
DunLUG mailing list<br>=0A=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>=
<br>=0A=
<a href=3D"http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug">http://lists.etherna=
l.org/listinfo/dunlug</a><br>=0A=
DunLUG Wiki - <a href=3D"http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/">http://dunlug.kal=
listi.net.nz/</a><br></span></blockquote></div><br></div>=0A=
<br>_______________________________________________<br>=0A=
DunLUG mailing list<br>=0A=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>=
<br>=0A=
<a href=3D"http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunlug">http://lists.etherna=
l.org/listinfo/dunlug</a><br>=0A=
DunLUG Wiki - <a href=3D"http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/">http://dunlug.kal=
listi.net.nz/</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div>=0A=
</div>_______________________________________________<br>DunLUG mailing li=
st<br>[email protected]<br>http://lists.ethernal.org/listinfo/dunl=
ug<br>DunLUG Wiki - http://dunlug.kallisti.net.nz/</blockquote></body></ht=
ml>=
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