RE: Re: Question on Ins and Del - : Re: Or! - RE: Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader

Léonie.

Thanks, this is very helpful.

Alan Smith

From: Léonie Watson
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2020 5:21 PM
To: [email protected] ; Char Easter ; Matt King ; Phill Jenkins
Cc: [email protected] ; Evan Cordulack
Subject: Re: Question on Ins and Del - : Re: Or! - RE: Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader

I haven't read through this thread, so apologies if this has already

been mentioned, but the March update for Jaws 2020 adds support for

content marked up using the HTML <del> and <ins> elements [1]. Support

is in firefox and the Chromium browsers (new Edge, Brave, Yandex etc.)

though not old Edge or IE.

Jaws uses a different voice to announce the start and end of the deleted

or inserted text. So for the following example Jaws says "Deletion",

"this has been deleted", "Deletion end".

<p>In this sentence <del>this text has been deleted</del> but not this

text.</p>

Similarly, in the following example Jaws announces "Insertion", "this

text has been inserted", "Insertion end".

<p>In this sentence <ins>this text has been inserted</ins> but this text

was here already.</p>

It's a very useful addition I think.

Léonie.

[1]

https://support.freedomscientific.com/Downloads/JAWS/JAWSWhatsNew#Enhancements

On 17/03/2020 19:28, [email protected] wrote:

> Matt,

>

> I’m not quite clear on ins and del.

>

> Are these terms that will be announced for the strikethrough type

> annotation?

>

> If so, has it been tested with blind users to see if this properly

> communicates something that they will understand.

>

> I have no understanding of what insert and delete mean.

>

> Alan Smith

>

> *From: *Char Easter <mailto:[email protected]>

> *Sent: *Tuesday, March 17, 2020 1:28 PM

> *To: *Matt King <mailto:[email protected]>; [email protected]

> <mailto:[email protected]>; Phill Jenkins <mailto:[email protected]>

> *Cc: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>; Evan Cordulack

> <mailto:[email protected]>

> *Subject: *Re: Or! - RE: Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader

>

> Thanks all for the input and quick action.

>

> *From: *Matt King <[email protected]>

> *Date: *Wednesday, March 4, 2020 at 10:20 AM

> *To: *"[email protected]" <[email protected]>, 'Phill Jenkins'

> <[email protected]>, Char Easter <[email protected]>

> *Cc: *"[email protected]" <[email protected]>

> *Subject: *RE: Or! - RE: Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader

>

> Scope of ARIA 1.3 includes new semantics related to annotations, which

> includes comments on revisions marked up with ins and del elements.

>

> As part of adding these semantics to ARIA 1.3, we will also draft

> guidance for the ARIA Authoring Practices and add canonical examples of

> implementations.

>

> After the APG Task Force has consensus on the example implementations,

> we will add screen reader tests for the semantics to the ARIA and

> Assistive Tehcnology (aria-at) project.

>

> So, by end of year, we should have an end-to-end understanding of any

> gaps in this space and a clear path to full support.

>

> Side note: testing of implied ARIA semantics in native HTML is on the

> 2021 roadmap for aria-at. However, ins and del will certainly get

> covered by the annotations work, which should all happen this year.

>

> Matt

>

> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]>

> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 3, 2020 6:22 PM

> *To:* Phill Jenkins <[email protected]>; Char Easter

> <[email protected]>

> *Cc:* [email protected]

> *Subject:* Or! - RE: Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader

>

> Or!

>

> Generally, we should make our elements communicate to “all”.

>

> Your points are all good.

>

> If there is a known limitation then as those that strive to support

> accessibility it is our job to make things work for screen reader users

> or any other disability type if there is a know limitation that does

> have a solution.

>

> I’m not aware of a JAWS bug for a lack of supporting strike-through or

> the other styles you mentioned.

>

> Not everything will be supported by screen readers, so we have to have a

> method to make it work.

>

> Also, there are many other screen readers besides JAWS that we must

> support as well.

>

> None that I know of announce the strike-through.

>

> I’ve found a way that works and have communicated it to countless

> clients and they all seem happy with my suggested fix.

>

> Its just one of the values of years of experience that we can acquire

> solutions to problems and share them with others to make them successful.

>

> For those that use strike-through, once they know a way to make it work,

> they just add it to their own company design documentation or library

> and they have a solution that they can use.

>

> Regards,

>

> Alan Smith

>

> *From: *Phill Jenkins <mailto:[email protected]>

> *Sent: *Tuesday, March 3, 2020 6:32 PM

> *To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>; Char Easter

> <mailto:[email protected]>

> *Cc: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>

> *Subject: *Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader

>

> What?

> generally, we should *not* be hacking things just for screen readers.

> Did anyone ask the screen reader developers if they support

> strike-through? ask about *super-script*, /sub-script, italics, etc.

> /while you're asking.

>

> If it isn't supported by the screen reader, then its a screen reader

> bug! that needs to be fixed / supported.

>

> but I believe it is supported via a user setting. For example, See

> JAWS Techniques for Examining Text Formatting

> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoccenter.freedomscientific.com%2Fdoccenter%2Fdoccenter%2Frs25c51746a0cc%2F2012-06-20_textformatting%2F02_textformatting.htm&data=02%7C01%7Cceaster%40seattletimes.com%7Ce60ad63c06864be0a66608d7c068b52e%7Cfc2b8476b7f0473d82fbe0a89fd99855%7C0%7C0%7C637189428258107898&sdata=hN6qkXo753hJrL62j8ibrLUOV88inOpV%2BjIRjpA%2FBxk%3D&reserved=0>

>

> However, I'm not sure JAWS supports styling like

> "text-decoration:line-through" because it may not really be a text

> attribute.

>

> From 2005, a thread said:

> Now, with my settings on "attributes", my JAWS is also reading

> "strikethrough".

> If this is not clear, or what you get is not what you expected, please

> consult your help for JAWS.

> ___________

> Regards,

> Phill Jenkins

>

>

> Inactive hide details for ---03/03/2020 05:08:32 PM---Char, That is a

> very interesting question. Here is what I do that wor---03/03/2020

> 05:08:32 PM---Char, That is a very interesting question. Here is what I

> do that works great. On the product

>

> From: <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>

> To: Char Easter <[email protected]

> <mailto:[email protected]>>, "[email protected]

> <mailto:[email protected]>" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>

> Date: 03/03/2020 05:08 PM

> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader

>

>

>

>

> Char,

>

> That is a very interesting question.

>

> Here is what I do that works great.

>

> On the product pages with strikethrough text, strikethrough text is not

> announced by screen readers. Therefore, non-visual users will not have

> communicated to them that the original price is no longer valid and thus

> “striked through”. The text will need further coding.

> How is this a problem:

> Non-visual users will not understand what the two different prices mean

> when the screen reader announces them. This may be during a read all of

> the page, a virtual read of the text or text announced from a link.

> How to fix:

> Add a span before the strike through amount with the words original

> price (or equivalent term). Have the span be your supported

> visuallyhidden class so it does not show on the screen.

> <span class=""visuallyhidden"">Original price</span>

> <span style=""text-decoration: line-through"">$70.00</span>

>

> I hope this helps.

>

> Alan Smith

>

> *From: *Char Easter <mailto:[email protected]>*

> Sent: *Tuesday, March 3, 2020 5:31 PM*

> To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>*

> Subject: *how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader

>

> Hello,

>

> Is there a way a screen reader can read a strikethrough on text so a

> screen reader user can interpret the meaning/intent?

>

> Thanks,

>

> *Char Easter*

> UX Designer at The Seattle Times

> p: 206.464.2945

> e: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>

> m: 206.779.2427

>

>

--

Director @TetraLogical