Re: Re: Question on Ins and Del - : Re: Or! - RE: Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader

Support for INS and DEL have been around for a while with JAWS and
NVDA and have now got better with Firefox and Chrome:
See http://mars.dequecloud.com/demo/example/Em-Strong-Del-InsTags.htm

In my opinion, browser / AT makers should be encouraged to add support
for native HTML elements and attributes when found lacking instead of
adding ARIA roles / attributes and suggesting they should support
those.
Best wishes,

Sailesh

On 3/17/20, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> Léonie.
>
>
>
> Thanks, this is very helpful.
>
>
>
> Alan Smith
>
>
>
> From: Léonie Watson
> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2020 5:21 PM
> To: [email protected]; Char Easter; Matt King; Phill Jenkins
> Cc: [email protected]; Evan Cordulack
> Subject: Re: Question on Ins and Del - : Re: Or! - RE: Re: how to code
> strikethroughs for a screenreader
>
>
>
> I haven't read through this thread, so apologies if this has already
>
> been mentioned, but the March update for Jaws 2020 adds support for
>
> content marked up using the HTML <del> and <ins> elements [1]. Support
>
> is in firefox and the Chromium browsers (new Edge, Brave, Yandex etc.)
>
> though not old Edge or IE.
>
>
>
> Jaws uses a different voice to announce the start and end of the deleted
>
> or inserted text. So for the following example Jaws says "Deletion",
>
> "this has been deleted", "Deletion end".
>
>
>
> <p>In this sentence <del>this text has been deleted</del> but not this
>
> text.</p>
>
>
>
> Similarly, in the following example Jaws announces "Insertion", "this
>
> text has been inserted", "Insertion end".
>
>
>
> <p>In this sentence <ins>this text has been inserted</ins> but this text
>
> was here already.</p>
>
>
>
> It's a very useful addition I think.
>
>
>
>
>
> Léonie.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [1]
>
> https://support.freedomscientific.com/Downloads/JAWS/JAWSWhatsNew#Enhancements
>
>
>
>
>
> On 17/03/2020 19:28, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Matt,
>
>>
>
>> I’m not quite clear on ins and del.
>
>>
>
>> Are these terms that will be announced for the strikethrough type
>
>> annotation?
>
>>
>
>> If so, has it been tested with blind users to see if this properly
>
>> communicates something that they will understand.
>
>>
>
>> I have no understanding of what insert and delete mean.
>
>>
>
>> Alan Smith
>
>>
>
>> *From: *Char Easter <mailto:[email protected]>
>
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, March 17, 2020 1:28 PM
>
>> *To: *Matt King <mailto:[email protected]>; [email protected]
>
>> <mailto:[email protected]>; Phill Jenkins <mailto:[email protected]>
>
>> *Cc: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>; Evan Cordulack
>
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>
>> *Subject: *Re: Or! - RE: Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader
>
>>
>
>> Thanks all for the input and quick action.
>
>>
>
>> *From: *Matt King <[email protected]>
>
>> *Date: *Wednesday, March 4, 2020 at 10:20 AM
>
>> *To: *"[email protected]" <[email protected]>, 'Phill Jenkins'
>
>> <[email protected]>, Char Easter <[email protected]>
>
>> *Cc: *"[email protected]" <[email protected]>
>
>> *Subject: *RE: Or! - RE: Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader
>
>>
>
>> Scope of ARIA 1.3 includes new semantics related to annotations, which
>
>> includes comments on revisions marked up with ins and del elements.
>
>>
>
>> As part of adding these semantics to ARIA 1.3, we will also draft
>
>> guidance for the ARIA Authoring Practices and add canonical examples of
>
>> implementations.
>
>>
>
>> After the APG Task Force has consensus on the example implementations,
>
>> we will add screen reader tests for the semantics to the ARIA and
>
>> Assistive Tehcnology  (aria-at) project.
>
>>
>
>> So, by end of year, we should have an end-to-end understanding of any
>
>> gaps in this space and a clear path to full support.
>
>>
>
>> Side note: testing of implied ARIA semantics in native HTML is on the
>
>> 2021 roadmap for aria-at. However, ins and del will certainly get
>
>> covered by the annotations work, which should all happen this year.
>
>>
>
>> Matt
>
>>
>
>> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]>
>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 3, 2020 6:22 PM
>
>> *To:* Phill Jenkins <[email protected]>; Char Easter
>
>> <[email protected]>
>
>> *Cc:* [email protected]
>
>> *Subject:* Or! - RE: Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader
>
>>
>
>> Or!
>
>>
>
>> Generally, we should make our elements communicate to “all”.
>
>>
>
>> Your points are all good.
>
>>
>
>> If there is a known limitation then as those that strive to support
>
>> accessibility it is our job to make things work for screen reader users
>
>> or any other disability type if there is a know limitation that does
>
>> have a solution.
>
>>
>
>> I’m not aware of a JAWS bug for a lack of supporting strike-through or
>
>> the other styles you mentioned.
>
>>
>
>> Not everything will be supported by screen readers, so we have to have a
>
>> method to make it work.
>
>>
>
>> Also, there are many other screen readers besides JAWS that we must
>
>> support as well.
>
>>
>
>> None that I know of announce the strike-through.
>
>>
>
>> I’ve found a way that works and have communicated it to countless
>
>> clients and they all seem happy with my suggested fix.
>
>>
>
>> Its just one of the values of years of experience that we can acquire
>
>> solutions to problems and share them with others to make them successful.
>
>>
>
>> For those that use strike-through, once they know a way to make it work,
>
>> they just add it to their own company design documentation or library
>
>> and they have a solution that they can use.
>
>>
>
>> Regards,
>
>>
>
>> Alan Smith
>
>>
>
>> *From: *Phill Jenkins <mailto:[email protected]>
>
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, March 3, 2020 6:32 PM
>
>> *To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>; Char Easter
>
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>
>> *Cc: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>
>> *Subject: *Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader
>
>>
>
>> What?
>
>> generally, we should *not* be hacking things just for screen readers.
>
>> Did anyone ask the screen reader developers if they support
>
>> strike-through? ask about *super-script*, /sub-script, italics, etc.
>
>> /while you're asking.
>
>>
>
>> If it isn't supported by the screen reader, then its a screen reader
>
>> bug! that needs to be fixed / supported.
>
>>
>
>> but I believe it is supported via a user setting. For example, See
>
>> JAWS Techniques for Examining Text Formatting
>
>> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoccenter.freedomscientific.com%2Fdoccenter%2Fdoccenter%2Frs25c51746a0cc%2F2012-06-20_textformatting%2F02_textformatting.htm&data=02%7C01%7Cceaster%40seattletimes.com%7Ce60ad63c06864be0a66608d7c068b52e%7Cfc2b8476b7f0473d82fbe0a89fd99855%7C0%7C0%7C637189428258107898&sdata=hN6qkXo753hJrL62j8ibrLUOV88inOpV%2BjIRjpA%2FBxk%3D&reserved=0>
>
>>
>
>> However, I'm not sure JAWS supports styling like
>
>> "text-decoration:line-through" because it may not really be a text
>
>> attribute.
>
>>
>
>>  From 2005, a thread said:
>
>> Now, with my settings on "attributes", my JAWS is also reading
>
>> "strikethrough".
>
>> If this is not clear, or what you get is not what you expected, please
>
>> consult your help for JAWS.
>
>> ___________
>
>> Regards,
>
>> Phill Jenkins
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Inactive hide details for ---03/03/2020 05:08:32 PM---Char, That is a
>
>> very interesting question. Here is what I do that wor---03/03/2020
>
>> 05:08:32 PM---Char, That is a very interesting question. Here is what I
>
>> do that works great. On the product
>
>>
>
>> From: <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>
>> To: Char Easter <[email protected]
>
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>, "[email protected]
>
>> <mailto:[email protected]>" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>
>> Date: 03/03/2020 05:08 PM
>
>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Char,
>
>>
>
>> That is a very interesting question.
>
>>
>
>> Here is what I do that works great.
>
>>
>
>> On the product pages with strikethrough text, strikethrough text is not
>
>> announced by screen readers. Therefore, non-visual users will not have
>
>> communicated to them that the original price is no longer valid and thus
>
>> “striked through”. The text will need further coding.
>
>> How is this a problem:
>
>> Non-visual users will not understand what the two different prices mean
>
>> when the screen reader announces them. This may be during a read all of
>
>> the page, a virtual read of the text or text announced from a link.
>
>> How to fix:
>
>> Add a span before the strike through amount with the words original
>
>> price (or equivalent term). Have the span be your supported
>
>> visuallyhidden class so it does not show on the screen.
>
>> <span class=""visuallyhidden"">Original price</span>
>
>> <span style=""text-decoration: line-through"">$70.00</span>
>
>>
>
>> I hope this helps.
>
>>
>
>> Alan Smith
>
>>
>
>> *From: *Char Easter <mailto:[email protected]>*
>
>> Sent: *Tuesday, March 3, 2020 5:31 PM*
>
>> To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>*
>
>> Subject: *how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader
>
>>
>
>> Hello,
>
>>
>
>> Is there a way a screen reader can read a strikethrough on text so a
>
>> screen reader user can interpret the meaning/intent?
>
>>
>
>> Thanks,
>
>>
>
>> *Char Easter*
>
>> UX Designer at The Seattle Times
>
>> p: 206.464.2945
>
>> e: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>
>> m: 206.779.2427
>
>>
>
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Director @TetraLogical
>
>


-- 
Sailesh Panchang
Principal Accessibility Consultant
Deque Systems Inc
381 Elden Street, Suite 2000, Herndon, VA 20170
Mobile: 571-344-1765