RE: Buttons vs links

Using the spacebar is "safer" when you're in a form.  If the thing is coded=
 incorrectly, or I don't have the focus where I think I have it, an "enter"=
 hit will submit data if you're anywhere on the form despite not going to t=
he submit button directly.  I tend to prefer to use spacebar because it's a=
 non-destructive operation unless you're actually on a specific form submis=
sion button.

It's simply not as black and white as "just make one element".

-----Original Message-----
From: Janina Sajka <[email protected]>=20
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 11:23
To: Andrews, David B (DEED) <[email protected]>
Cc: Savage, Angela (ITS) <[email protected]>; Jan Hellbusch <jan@hel=
lbusch.de>; [email protected]; L=E9onie Watson <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Buttons vs links

Why do people do what they shouldn't? I suppose one can pick one's favorite=
 glib response, e.g. "original sin."

More interesting to me is why the two are created by HTML standards as enti=
ties supposedly distinct.

I would rather ask what's the difference to the mouse wielding sighted user=
? Either is responded to by the same click event. So, at best they look dif=
ferent on screen and that's supposed to mean something that's intuitively u=
nderstandable. I rather suspect it just means more confusion especially to =
the tentative tech user.

And, if it is just a "look and feel" issue -- oops, make that just a "looks=
" issue, then why isn't the look accomplished via styling?

And we screen readers users could just as readily not worry about the theor=
etical distinction and keep pressing enter. It's not as though we obtain so=
me kind of benefit by remembering to press the space-bar for the button. Th=
ere's no reward for that especially, as you correctly note, these two entit=
ies are often miscoded anyway. Enter is more reliable.

Best,

Janina

Andrews, David B (DEED) writes:
> One problem with this button/link thing can impact screen reader users. S=
ometimes designers make links look like buttons, and visa versa. We are the=
n told to find XYZ button, which our screen reader sees as a link. So we te=
ll the sightling, there is no button! =20
>=20
> Links are links, and buttons are buttons. Why do people need to make it s=
o complicated!
>=20
> Dave
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Janina Sajka <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 9:14 AM
> To: Savage, Angela (ITS) <[email protected]>
> Cc: Jan Hellbusch <[email protected]>; [email protected]; L=E9onie Watson=
=20
> <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Buttons vs links
>=20
> This message may be from an external email source.
> Do not select links or open attachments unless verified. Report all suspi=
cious emails to Minnesota IT Services Security Operations Center.
>=20
> ________________________________
>=20
>  I must confess I've always found the buttons vis a vis links  distinctio=
n one without much of a difference from the user perspective.
>=20
>  Either way most users click to invoke the associated result.
>=20
>  Those of us who are mouseless by necessity may press spacebar for  butto=
ns, but pressing enter also works. And, there are two many  instances where=
 that which perports to be a button won't respond to  spacebar. Enter seems=
 always to work. Off hand I can't think of an  exception.
>=20
>  Thus my distinction without a difference conclusion.
>=20
>  Best,
>=20
>  Janina
>=20
> Savage, Angela (ITS) writes:
> > Thank you for the responses. These have been helpful!
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jan Hellbusch <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 12:28 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: Buttons vs links
> >
> > ATTENTION: This email came from an external source. Do not open attachm=
ents or click on links from unknown senders or unexpected emails.
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > according to HTML spec, links are for resources and buttons are for act=
ions.
> > There are exceptions:
> >
> > * in general, use links for going to a new page or downloading a docume=
nt.
> > * links can also be used within a web page (skip navigation links etc.)=
..
> >
> > * buttons are used for sending forms (most often to a script).
> > * Otherwise they should be used for performing actions on the web page =
(e.g.
> > widgets).
> >
> > * Actions can, of course, mean calling a new resource in a process. It =
will not always be clear, whether a button or a link is more appropriate.
> >
> > Jan
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Savage, Angela (ITS) <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 6:02 PM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: Buttons vs links
> > >
> > > I was wondering what is the proper usage for a button and a link=20
> > > when
> > building
> > > an accessible application or website?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm reading multiple articles on this topic and I read an article=20
> > > from the
> > Nielsen
> > > Norman Group on command links and they state that buttons should=20
> > > not be used for navigation and that users should click a plain=20
> > > link to move to
> > another
> > > page of information. Multiple articles I have read  on using=20
> > > buttons and
> > links
> > > when creating an accessible application or page mention this too.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Article: Command Links
> > > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://gcc01.safelinks.protection.ou
> > > tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fw__;JSUl!!C5qS4YX3!VnLwZtkhgsmDOldd-e
> > > EG8SynJKugmVV2TUIP8qXapEo39BHVRuLGSyzVO78U0iRQBw$
> > > ww.nngroup.com%2Farticles%2Fcommand-links%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cda
> > > vi=20
> > > d.b.andrews%40state.mn.us%7C188d88af482640d242ea08d7f35afdf9%7Ceb1
> > > 4b
> > > 04624c445198f26b89c2159828c%7C0%7C0%7C637245444443445544&amp;sdata
> > > =3D5 iYs02cNgOnbItrZcOmT%2FrXzZS99QvXpBcdtPqXZZvk%3D&amp;reserved=3D0=
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you in advance,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Angela Savage
> > >
> > > Accessibility Auditor
> >
> >
> >
> >
>=20
> --
>=20
> Janina Sajka
>=20
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:       https://urldefense.com/v3=
/__https://gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp*3A*2F*2Fa11y.=
org*2F&amp;data=3D02*7C01*7Cdavid.b.andrews*40state.mn.us*7C188d88af482640d=
242ea08d7f35afdf9*7Ceb14b04624c445198f26b89c2159828c*7C0*7C0*7C637245444443=
445544&amp;sdata=3DFDUgrI9vYLMO*2FiczzF2hkkvbGTXAqhQOeCu2Jp40T5g*3D&amp;res=
erved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!C5qS4YX3!VnLwZtkhgsmDOldd-eEG8SynJKugmVV2T=
UIP8qXapEo39BHVRuLGSyzVO7_bW7enrA$=20
>=20
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures        https://urldefense.com/v3=
/__https://gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp*3A*2F*2Fwww.w=
3.org*2Fwai*2Fapa&amp;data=3D02*7C01*7Cdavid.b.andrews*40state.mn.us*7C188d=
88af482640d242ea08d7f35afdf9*7Ceb14b04624c445198f26b89c2159828c*7C0*7C0*7C6=
37245444443445544&amp;sdata=3Dpaal2ZHHyMiFya*2BUSWt*2FPzn0gOhkrEHHLg*2Byq9V=
t3sU*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!C5qS4YX3!VnLwZtkhgsmDOl=
dd-eEG8SynJKugmVV2TUIP8qXapEo39BHVRuLGSyzVO78vTwjjEQ$=20
>=20
>=20

--=20

Janina Sajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:=
//a11y.org__;!!C5qS4YX3!VnLwZtkhgsmDOldd-eEG8SynJKugmVV2TUIP8qXapEo39BHVRuL=
GSyzVO7_H8XQJ3Q$=20

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/=
/www.w3.org/wai/apa__;!!C5qS4YX3!VnLwZtkhgsmDOldd-eEG8SynJKugmVV2TUIP8qXapE=
o39BHVRuLGSyzVO7-n5k8fOg$=20