Re: Wikipedia at 25: A Wake-Up Call (essay)
James Heilman via Wikimedia-l <[email protected]> Sun, 5 Jul 2026 16:23:30 +0200
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--===============6592942752873388087== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ab80b80655dde748" --000000000000ab80b80655dde748 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, writing the leads in easier to understand language would be excellent. But this is definitely an uphill battle and anyone who tries may be confronted with alot of hate. Writing in easier to understand language is called "dumbing down Wikipedia" by some and certain folks will go out of their way to prevent simplified leads from occurring. We did succeed for healthcare content for a time per this paper: https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/WikiJournal_of_Medicine/Readability_of_Engl= ish_Wikipedia%27s_health_information_over_time But life is simply too short, and thus we forked to MDWiki.org for simplified leads. James On Sun, Jul 5, 2026 at 6:32=E2=80=AFAM WereSpielChequers via Wikimedia-l < [email protected]> wrote: > I'm not sure how useful my perspective is on this one, I'm a monolingual > Brit who doesn't use AI myself, and while I have used a smartphone to tak= e > pictures on Commons I suspect over 99.99%, maybe 99.999% of my global edi= ts > have been PC or tablet based rather than from a smartphone. > > As Christophe has pointed out, AI is taking our audience. I'd add that we > have had community growth issues for more than a decade, partly because f= or > smartphone users we are almost a broadcast medium. Optimising the mobile > platform, and to some extent new skins on the PC platform, for readers > rather than editors seems to have been WMF strategy for more than a decad= e. > It succeeded in keeping our audience for a while, but at the price of > restricting community growth and making us ever more dependent on aging P= C > users in the global north. > > In a more growth oriented model we would recruit readers to become editor= s > by incrementally changing their user experience, adding more useful editi= ng > features as they edit more. > > What I'm not sure is how much the deprioritising of Wikipedia content in > favour of AI is a side effect of the big tech companies investing in AI, = or > to what extent there are operators out there who see us as either a > competitor or as a challenge to their alternative facts. I suspect it is = a > bit of all three. > > Part of the solution is going to revolve around copyright. Both in terms > of the WMF, or some other collective representation of Wikimedians, > reminding AI operators of the SA and BY implications of CC-BY-SA. But als= o > for the future, our potential role as a bridge between paywalled sites an= d > the free parts of the internet. There are still publications out there th= at > employ journalists and don't give away their content for free. Those of u= s > who have subscriptions to such publications give Wikipedia an advantage > over AI content, that advantage isn't going to go away soon, and could > increase if the WMF and Chapters invest more in the Wikipedia library and > similar routes to make good offline sources available to Wikimedians. As = a > side effect of this, I think we should do more outreach to the publishing > industry as to what our criteria are for something to be considered a > reliable source, and what changes certain sites would need to do for some > or all of their content to meet our standards. > > One of the advantages that AI has or can have over us is in talking a > language that people understand. I remember in the 2009 Strategy discussi= on > talking about following the Chinese Wikipedia system and making American > English, Canadian English, Indian English and English as different views = of > one Wikipedia. I don't know if that would also work for Portugal and Braz= il > and other languages that have become semi detached. But it is one change = we > could fairly easily make. A more difficult one is reading ages. Apologies > to other languages if this is just an English thing, but I get the > impression that EN Wiki is written for a reading age that only a small > minority of even native English speakers have achieved, whilst AI at leas= t > tries to be understood by anyone with a day to day fluency in English. > Lowering the reading age of our content, especially of the lede, would be= a > lot of work, but it is the sort of work that we could explain at U3A even= ts > or retirement fairs. We've long needed an alternative entry level tasks a= s > typos and vandalism get ever rarer on Wiki. > > There is a bigger cultural change to the movement that we need to start > preparing for. Since the earliest days of the project, long before I got > involved, our first level divide has been by language. As AI translation > improves, we need to be aware that some barriers are coming down, we may > find ourselves organising more by subject area, or find that some of our > sources are reliable in their host language and less so when mirrored int= o > other languages. Before Wikidata I was involved in some cross wiki workin= g > with the death anomaly project. I predict that this is going to be a grow= th > area for us as we start getting criticism for different language version= s > of Wikipedia covering the same event from radically different perspective= s. > > We are living in interesting times. > > WereSpielChequers (=CB=88d=CA=92=C9=92n=C9=99=CE=B8=C9=99n > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/English>) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]= rg/message/Y55SJYOGQQIODKKA7QPLPEVRGEB6H6JC/ > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org --=20 James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian --000000000000ab80b80655dde748 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Yes, writing the leads in easier to understand language wo= uld be excellent. But this is definitely=C2=A0an uphill battle and anyone w= ho tries may be confronted with alot of hate. Writing=C2=A0in easier to und= erstand=C2=A0language is called "dumbing down Wikipedia" by some = and certain folks will go out of their way to prevent simplified leads from= occurring. We did succeed for healthcare content for a time per this paper= :<div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/WikiJournal= _of_Medicine/Readability_of_English_Wikipedia%27s_health_information_over_t= ime">https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/WikiJournal_of_Medicine/Readability_of= _English_Wikipedia%27s_health_information_over_time</a></div><div><br></div= ><div>But life is simply too short, and thus we forked to MDWiki.org for si= mplified leads.</div><div>James</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gm= ail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 5, 2= 026 at 6:32=E2=80=AFAM WereSpielChequers via Wikimedia-l <<a href=3D"mai= lto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>>= ; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px= 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div di= r=3D"ltr">I'm not sure how useful my perspective is on this one, I'= m a monolingual Brit who doesn't use AI myself, and while I have used a= smartphone to take pictures on Commons I suspect over 99.99%, maybe 99.999= % of my global edits have been PC or tablet based=C2=A0rather than from a s= martphone.<div><br></div><div>As Christophe has pointed out, AI is taking o= ur audience. I'd add that we have had community growth issues for more = than a decade, partly because for smartphone users we are almost a broadcas= t medium. Optimising the mobile platform, and to some extent new skins on t= he PC platform, for readers rather than editors seems to have been WMF stra= tegy for more than a decade. It succeeded in keeping our audience for a whi= le, but at the price of restricting community growth and making us ever mor= e dependent on aging PC users in the global north.</div><div><br></div><div= >In a more growth oriented model we would recruit readers to become editors= by incrementally changing their user experience, adding more useful editin= g features=C2=A0as they edit more.</div><div><br></div><div>What I'm no= t sure is how much the deprioritising=C2=A0of Wikipedia=C2=A0content in fav= our of AI is a side effect of the big tech companies investing in AI, or to= what extent there are operators out there who see us as either a competito= r or as a challenge to their alternative facts. I suspect it is a bit of al= l three.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Part of the solution is going to re= volve around copyright. Both in terms of the WMF, or some other collective = representation of Wikimedians, reminding AI operators of the SA and BY impl= ications of CC-BY-SA. But also for the future, our potential role as a brid= ge between paywalled sites and the free parts of the internet. There are st= ill publications out there that employ journalists and don't give away = their content for free. Those of us who have subscriptions to such publicat= ions give Wikipedia an advantage over AI content, that advantage isn't = going to go away soon, and could increase if the WMF and Chapters invest mo= re in the Wikipedia library and similar routes to make good offline sources= available to Wikimedians. As a side effect of this, I think we should do m= ore outreach to the publishing industry as to what our criteria are for som= ething to be considered a reliable source, and what changes certain sites w= ould need to do for some or all of their content to meet our standards.</di= v><div><br></div><div>One of the advantages that AI has or can have over us= is in talking a language that people understand. I remember in the 2009 St= rategy discussion talking about following the Chinese Wikipedia system and = making American English, Canadian English, Indian English and English as di= fferent views of one Wikipedia. I don't know if that would also work fo= r Portugal and Brazil and other languages that have become semi detached. B= ut it is one change we could fairly easily make. A more difficult one is re= ading ages. Apologies to other languages if this is just an English thing, = but I get the impression that EN Wiki is written for a reading age that onl= y a small minority of even native English speakers have achieved, whilst AI= at least tries to be understood by anyone with a day to day fluency in Eng= lish. Lowering the reading age of our content, especially of the lede, woul= d be a lot of work, but it is the sort of work that we could explain=C2=A0a= t U3A events or retirement fairs. We've long needed an alternative entr= y level tasks as typos and vandalism get ever rarer on Wiki.</div><div><br>= </div><div>There is a bigger cultural change to the movement that we need t= o start preparing for. Since the earliest days of the project, long before = I got involved, our first level divide has been by language. As AI translat= ion improves, we need to be aware that some barriers are coming down, we ma= y find ourselves organising more by subject area, or find that some of our = sources are reliable in their host language and less so when mirrored into = other languages. Before Wikidata I was involved in some cross wiki working = with the death anomaly project. I predict that this is going to be a growth= area for us as we start getting=C2=A0 criticism for different language ver= sions of Wikipedia covering the same event from radically different perspec= tives.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>We are living in interesting times.</= div><div><br></div><div>WereSpielChequers (<a rel=3D"mw:WikiLink" href=3D"h= ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/English" title=3D"Help:IPA/English" s= tyle=3D"color:rgb(0,43,184);background:none rgb(248,249,250);font-family:sa= ns-serif;font-size:11.176px;text-decoration-line:none" target=3D"_blank"><s= pan style=3D"border-bottom:1px dotted"><span title=3D"/=CB=88/: primary str= ess follows">=CB=88</span><span title=3D"/d=CA=92/: 'j' in 'jam= '">d=CA=92</span><span title=3D"/=C9=92/: 'o' in 'body'= ">=C9=92</span><span title=3D"'n' in 'nigh'">n</span><span = title=3D"/=C9=99/: 'a' in 'about'">=C9=99</span><span title= =3D"/=CE=B8/: 'th' in 'thigh'">=CE=B8</span><span title=3D"= /=C9=99n/: 'on' in 'button'">=C9=99n</span></span></a>)</di= v><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div> _______________________________________________<br> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= rg" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>, guidelines at: <= a href=3D"https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines" rel=3D"= noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists= /Guidelines</a> and <a href=3D"https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l"= rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikim= edia-l</a><br> Public archives at <a href=3D"https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/w= [email protected]/message/Y55SJYOGQQIODKKA7QPLPEVRGEB6H6JC/" r= el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/= list/[email protected]/message/Y55SJYOGQQIODKKA7QPLPEVRGEB6H6= JC/</a><br> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= ikimedia.org" target=3D"_blank">wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org</a></= blockquote></div><div><br clear=3D"all"></div><div><br></div><span class=3D= "gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_sign= ature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"= ltr">James Heilman<br>MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian</div></div></div></div></div>= </div> --000000000000ab80b80655dde748-- --===============6592942752873388087== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/LLA4ZLFEEEOGCY4DQ4HN5F6MR6U5YK7K/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org --===============6592942752873388087==--