Re: Textbook-l Digest, Vol 33, Issue 8

I agree with Garrett entirely. Even if we do continue to allow fair use, we 
should certainly put on some restrictions, especially considering the legal 
issues that fair use bring. Fair use media certainly may be helpful to 
textbook writers such as ourselves, but it does nothing but create 
unnecessary complications among textbook printers and readers (who are the 
majority of our wikibooks audience).

A fair use image should never be used when an acceptable copyleft or PD 
image is available, or when an acceptable image can be created and released 
under such a license.

--Andrew Whitworth


>From: Garrett <[email protected]>
>Reply-To: Wikimedia textbook discussion <[email protected]>
>To: "Wikimedia textbook discussion" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [Textbook-l] Textbook-l Digest, Vol 33, Issue 8
>Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 08:45:38 +1300
>
>Regardless of the strictness of the upcoming official statement from the
>Foundation, I think our local fair use policy should stipulate that fair 
>use
>should only be used when absolutely necessary AND when no PD/copyleft
>equivalent exists. Images with stipulations that restrict re-use should 
>also
>be disallowed. If someone is creating an image specifically for a Wikibook
>it should be released under the GFDL to ensure the maximum compatibility.
>
>I don't think we should go all the way and insist on Commons only, as this
>would make many history books difficult to write--it's unlikely some dead
>German general is going to claim copyright over a photograph of himself, 
>but
>if Commons was the only way such images would be impossible.
>
>The goal is to find a happy medium, and watch non-free uses closely. Other
>sites have had trouble with people tagging fair use images as PD or
>GFDL-self, so we'll need to watch for that too. I don't think this is an
>impossible goal, however.
>
>--Garrett (I almost signed with ~~~~)
>
>On 17/02/07, Iamunknown <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > What I consider terrifying is the fact that the statute of limitations
> > for copyright infringement in the United States is very ambiguous:
> > technically, it is only three years, but there are numerous
> > contradictory cases.
> >
> > Consider this example. I publish a book in August 2005. Another person
> > copies an entire chapter in December 2005 without permission and for
> > profit, directly infringing upon my exclusive right to the material,
> > including it in their book. Their book is published September 2006. A
> > second edition is published September 2007. It is still on the market
> > for several years to come. Courts might consider the December 2005
> > copy the original date of infringement, others might consider the
> > September 2006, the 2007, or even the later dates when the book is
> > still being published. Furthermore, there is ambiguity as to whether
> > one can sue for damages only based on the past three years, or on the
> > entire time the infringement (in this case) was in print.
> >
> > I know that it is pure speculation and copyright paranoia, but it is
> > frightening. Also, I want to say that even if we decide what we would
> > like to limit (or outright ban) regarding fair use, we should: (1)
> > wait for the official statement from the board and (2) get help from
> > foundation-l or more qualified legal personnel. But I would certainly
> > support discussion about what we would like to allow or disallow.
> > Also, I think we should seriously consider cleaning out our fair use
> > archives...I can testify from roving through the subcategories of
> > [[:Category:Wikibooks images]] that we have a lot of things that
> > should never be considered fair use.
> >
> > -Iamunknown
> >
> > On 2/16/07, Andrew Whitworth <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > It's more then just our legal risk in keeping those images and text.
> > Under
> > > US copyright law, we should be legally allowed to use some copyrighted
> > > material under fair use guidelines without causing any problems. There
> > are
> > > several problems with fair use:
> > > 1) Fair Use only applies in the US and a small handful of other
> > countries.
> > > In countries where fair use is not legal, all instances of it are
> > considered
> > > copyright infringement. In these countries, it is not legal to print 
>or
> > > distribute wikibooks containing fair use media.
> > > 2) Fair use, or other limited licensing (such as "the author allows 
>this
> > > image to be used on wikibooks only") reduces our ability to print,
> > > distribute, and modify our texts. Derivative works, a cornerstone of 
>the
> > > GFDL are not compatable with fair use, and using two incompatable
> > licenses
> > > on a single aggregate project (such as a wikibook) is simply not
> > possible.
> > > 3) Many people assume that text or an image can be released under fair
> > use
> > > when it can't be. Images that are uploaded under "fair use" are 
>usually
> > (as
> > > you pointed out) not properly tagged or referenced. These instances of
> > > misuse do constitute copyright infringement, and that could bring
> > lawsuits.
> > > We allowed fair use for a pretty long time on our project, but it 
>isn't
> > the
> > > kind of fight that we should be pursuing any longer. There are too 
>many
> > > problems with it. -
> > >
> > > --Andrew Whitworth (Whiteknight)
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Matthew Benedict" <[email protected]>
> > > >Reply-To: Wikimedia textbook discussion 
><[email protected]
> > >
> > > >To: [email protected]
> > > >Subject: Re: [Textbook-l] Textbook-l Digest, Vol 33, Issue 8
> > > >Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:07:29 -0500
> > > >
> > > >Now that I have thought some more about it, I do feel that the use of
> > > >fair use images should be limited, but the problem is where do we 
>draw
> > > >the line? We'd have to ask ourselves if the value of using the images
> > > >in the book outweighs the legal risk of listing it under fair use,
> > > >especially if the books will eventually be published in some manner,
> > > >as I presume is one eventual goal for any book on the project. I 
>think
> > > >that only in extreme cases (such as maybe those european history
> > > >images) should fair use be presumed, and these cases should be 
>clearly
> > > >defined, perhaps on a case-by-case or strict categorical basis.
> > > >
> > > >As for textual quotations, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that the
> > > >presumption of fair use for these (provided they are properly cited 
>of
> > > >course) is more common than the presumption of fair use for images. 
>If
> > > >we're going to do that we'll need some kind of standard method to
> > > >describe the rationale for the fair use argument, like wikipedia has
> > > >for images (i.e. this is a screenshot used only for illustration, 
>this
> > > >is a low-res company logo used to show what it looks like, etc).
> > > >
> > > >Speaking of citation, one problem with current fair use images is 
>that
> > > >a lot of them don't really cite the source properly; i.e. who created
> > > >it? From what source was it derived? This information should be in 
>the
> > > >image page, but often they just have descriptions of what the image
> > > >is, not where it came from or who the current copyright holder is,
> > > >which can cause problems of its own.
> > > >
> > > >Regards,
> > > >
> > > >Mattb112885
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On 2/16/07, textbook-l-request-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org
> > > ><textbook-l-request-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > > > > Send Textbook-l mailing list submissions to
> > > > >         [email protected]
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> > > > >
> > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more 
>specific
> > > > > than "Re: Contents of Textbook-l digest..."
> > > > >
> > > > > Today's Topics:
> > > > >
> > > > >    1. Regarding fair use (Iamunknown)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > From: Iamunknown <[email protected]>
> > > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > > Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 00:52:49 -0700
> > > > > Subject: [Textbook-l] Regarding fair use
> > > > > I really don't want fair use to go totally away, but I agree that 
>it
> > > >should
> > > > > be significantly limited. The clause, "Because of our commitment 
>to
> > free
> > > > > content, this non-free media should not be used when it is
> > reasonably
> > > > > possible to replace with free media that would serve the same
> > > >educational
> > > > > purpose," in Kat Walsh's statement comes to mind. While I have
> > expreseed
> > > > > concern on-wiki and on-mailing list before about unlicensed 
>images,
> > many
> > > > > which, if licensed properly, would remained unlicensed and used
> > under
> > > >fair
> > > > > use, I think that we should not outright ban unlicensed content 
>used
> > > >under
> > > > > fair use. In particular, we should allow very very limited use of
> > > >non-free
> > > > > media when it would be practically impossible to use free media --
> > the
> > > >media
> > > > > used in the European History wikibook comes to mind -- and for 
>small
> > > >textual
> > > > > quotations. What are everyone else's feelings?
> > > > >
> > > > > -Iamunknown
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --===============8126416904983688626==--
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