Re: Textbook-l Digest, Vol 33, Issue 8

Regardless of the strictness of the upcoming official statement from the
Foundation, I think our local fair use policy should stipulate that fair use
should only be used when absolutely necessary AND when no PD/copyleft
equivalent exists. Images with stipulations that restrict re-use should also
be disallowed. If someone is creating an image specifically for a Wikibook
it should be released under the GFDL to ensure the maximum compatibility.

I don't think we should go all the way and insist on Commons only, as this
would make many history books difficult to write--it's unlikely some dead
German general is going to claim copyright over a photograph of himself, but
if Commons was the only way such images would be impossible.

The goal is to find a happy medium, and watch non-free uses closely. Other
sites have had trouble with people tagging fair use images as PD or
GFDL-self, so we'll need to watch for that too. I don't think this is an
impossible goal, however.

--Garrett (I almost signed with ~~~~)

On 17/02/07, Iamunknown <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> What I consider terrifying is the fact that the statute of limitations
> for copyright infringement in the United States is very ambiguous:
> technically, it is only three years, but there are numerous
> contradictory cases.
>
> Consider this example. I publish a book in August 2005. Another person
> copies an entire chapter in December 2005 without permission and for
> profit, directly infringing upon my exclusive right to the material,
> including it in their book. Their book is published September 2006. A
> second edition is published September 2007. It is still on the market
> for several years to come. Courts might consider the December 2005
> copy the original date of infringement, others might consider the
> September 2006, the 2007, or even the later dates when the book is
> still being published. Furthermore, there is ambiguity as to whether
> one can sue for damages only based on the past three years, or on the
> entire time the infringement (in this case) was in print.
>
> I know that it is pure speculation and copyright paranoia, but it is
> frightening. Also, I want to say that even if we decide what we would
> like to limit (or outright ban) regarding fair use, we should: (1)
> wait for the official statement from the board and (2) get help from
> foundation-l or more qualified legal personnel. But I would certainly
> support discussion about what we would like to allow or disallow.
> Also, I think we should seriously consider cleaning out our fair use
> archives...I can testify from roving through the subcategories of
> [[:Category:Wikibooks images]] that we have a lot of things that
> should never be considered fair use.
>
> -Iamunknown
>
> On 2/16/07, Andrew Whitworth <[email protected]> wrote:
> > It's more then just our legal risk in keeping those images and text.
> Under
> > US copyright law, we should be legally allowed to use some copyrighted
> > material under fair use guidelines without causing any problems. There
> are
> > several problems with fair use:
> > 1) Fair Use only applies in the US and a small handful of other
> countries.
> > In countries where fair use is not legal, all instances of it are
> considered
> > copyright infringement. In these countries, it is not legal to print or
> > distribute wikibooks containing fair use media.
> > 2) Fair use, or other limited licensing (such as "the author allows this
> > image to be used on wikibooks only") reduces our ability to print,
> > distribute, and modify our texts. Derivative works, a cornerstone of the
> > GFDL are not compatable with fair use, and using two incompatable
> licenses
> > on a single aggregate project (such as a wikibook) is simply not
> possible.
> > 3) Many people assume that text or an image can be released under fair
> use
> > when it can't be. Images that are uploaded under "fair use" are usually
> (as
> > you pointed out) not properly tagged or referenced. These instances of
> > misuse do constitute copyright infringement, and that could bring
> lawsuits.
> > We allowed fair use for a pretty long time on our project, but it isn't
> the
> > kind of fight that we should be pursuing any longer. There are too many
> > problems with it. -
> >
> > --Andrew Whitworth (Whiteknight)
> >
> >
> > >From: "Matthew Benedict" <[email protected]>
> > >Reply-To: Wikimedia textbook discussion <[email protected]
> >
> > >To: [email protected]
> > >Subject: Re: [Textbook-l] Textbook-l Digest, Vol 33, Issue 8
> > >Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:07:29 -0500
> > >
> > >Now that I have thought some more about it, I do feel that the use of
> > >fair use images should be limited, but the problem is where do we draw
> > >the line? We'd have to ask ourselves if the value of using the images
> > >in the book outweighs the legal risk of listing it under fair use,
> > >especially if the books will eventually be published in some manner,
> > >as I presume is one eventual goal for any book on the project. I think
> > >that only in extreme cases (such as maybe those european history
> > >images) should fair use be presumed, and these cases should be clearly
> > >defined, perhaps on a case-by-case or strict categorical basis.
> > >
> > >As for textual quotations, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that the
> > >presumption of fair use for these (provided they are properly cited of
> > >course) is more common than the presumption of fair use for images. If
> > >we're going to do that we'll need some kind of standard method to
> > >describe the rationale for the fair use argument, like wikipedia has
> > >for images (i.e. this is a screenshot used only for illustration, this
> > >is a low-res company logo used to show what it looks like, etc).
> > >
> > >Speaking of citation, one problem with current fair use images is that
> > >a lot of them don't really cite the source properly; i.e. who created
> > >it? From what source was it derived? This information should be in the
> > >image page, but often they just have descriptions of what the image
> > >is, not where it came from or who the current copyright holder is,
> > >which can cause problems of its own.
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >
> > >Mattb112885
> > >
> > >
> > >On 2/16/07, textbook-l-request-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org
> > ><textbook-l-request-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > > > Send Textbook-l mailing list submissions to
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> > > >
> > > > Today's Topics:
> > > >
> > > >    1. Regarding fair use (Iamunknown)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > From: Iamunknown <[email protected]>
> > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 00:52:49 -0700
> > > > Subject: [Textbook-l] Regarding fair use
> > > > I really don't want fair use to go totally away, but I agree that it
> > >should
> > > > be significantly limited. The clause, "Because of our commitment to
> free
> > > > content, this non-free media should not be used when it is
> reasonably
> > > > possible to replace with free media that would serve the same
> > >educational
> > > > purpose," in Kat Walsh's statement comes to mind. While I have
> expreseed
> > > > concern on-wiki and on-mailing list before about unlicensed images,
> many
> > > > which, if licensed properly, would remained unlicensed and used
> under
> > >fair
> > > > use, I think that we should not outright ban unlicensed content used
> > >under
> > > > fair use. In particular, we should allow very very limited use of
> > >non-free
> > > > media when it would be practically impossible to use free media --
> the
> > >media
> > > > used in the European History wikibook comes to mind -- and for small
> > >textual
> > > > quotations. What are everyone else's feelings?
> > > >
> > > > -Iamunknown
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --===============8126416904983688626==--
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