Re: Attitude (was: keyboard failure)

First off, there are 3 list replies and 1 personal reply and everyone was 
polite.  Thanks!  Sorry for the lag time, an infant and work take up most 
of my "free" time.  Since I am having trouble responding in a timely 
fashion, I likely will let this drop after this.

Jeremiah Gowdy wrote:
>You know, I've made some of those points myself at one time or another, but
>I finally just got over it and decided, "it's their project, let them behave
>as they see fit, and let them reap the positive or negative results of their
>attitude."

Rudeness is unacceptable.  I feel Douglas put it well (see below).  The 
attitude is of those who are CSci majors in a class project.  But we 
aren't in a CompSci class and we aren't all in on this as a project.

>However, I would like to point out what a piss-poor forum to
>introduce this subject.

It is the perfect place--it is where the particular rudeness I reacted to 
took place, and there has been rudeness here in the past (I've been on 
the list since at least 1999 and likely before then on a different 
account, so I've seen a lot of helpfulness and too much rudeness (and the 
occasional spam)).

>And in this instance, I don't find his post which
>basically says "I can't fix the problem if all you tell me is you have a
>'mac68k system' and a 'keyboard'", to be a very RTFM-like statement.  Seems
>perfectly reasonable to me.

Nick was sarcastic and it was uncalled for.  I do tech support for a 
living, and I would fire anyone working for me who took that attitude and 
kept it after remedial "how to be nice" instruction.

This is a mail list, it isn't Usenet.  It should be less hostile and, 
perhaps even a bit friendly.

>As I said, some of your points make sense (to me anyway), however posting
>something like this can have two possible purposes: (1) to try to get people
>to change their ways, (2) to troll.  Since your audience is awful small on
>the mac68k list, I'd have to assume it is the latter.

There can be, and are, more than 2 points, and your conclusion is incorrect.

If rudeness is accepted, it is regarded as acceptable by those being rude 
and those with easily influenced minds.  I point it out to make it clear 
it isn't acceptable.  And to voice some frustration I have with it. 
Neither your (1) nor your (2).

Douglas Carnall wrote:
>it seems like the reality is, if you're not a CompSci major (I'm not),
>and you just want to get on with the things you want to do... well,
>OpenBSD on m68k is probably not for you...

Well said.  I think you nailed it on the head.

Frank Bergmann wrote:
>I'm still a "BSD-newbie" and I read this list for many months but I 
>don't agree
>with you. Nick and other guys have written a lot of useful postings - in 
>reply
>to people who posted a *exact* status/error description.

I wasn't objecting to a lack of help to someone who put forth a generic 
post.  I was objecting to the rude way he was treated.

I believe his question was acceptable, too.  A lot of times someone will 
say something similar and the response will be "the adb code on that 
machine is flakey" or such.  Not every question requires a huge amount of 
data to go with it in order to be answered.  And sometimes someone needs 
"post these bits of info to start with:..."

>My experience is that OpenBSD/mac68k is probably the most easy to install OS.

You must be joking.  I was shocked at how easy HP-UX was.  OpenBSD/mac68k 
is _not_ easy.  And some of the necessary instructions are either 
incomplete or wrong.


Brian
--
The god of computing wants a sacrifice, and volunteers are being called for.
                                                -- Simon Travaglia