Re: congestion as a good thing

For me congestion is the result of a bad increase in the number of cars.

The reasoning that without congestion things would be a lot worse raises
seems fundamentally flawed to me, because

a) it puts forward the result of a really bad evolution as a cure to
prevent from worse.
b) the individual car driver might drive less distance, but the total
overall of distance driven by cars on the road is still increasing,
despite increasing congestion.

Also, there will ALWAYS be congestion, unless you reduce the number of
cars in relation to the capacity of the roads.

My priority would be to reduce the absolute number of cars, because
congestion increases the environmental damage done by cars (start stop
traffic creates the most noise, is the most energy consuming).

In Belgium congestion is ever increasing, as well as the number of cars
as well.
There is no indication that the increasing congestion is making people
buy less cars.
As I said before, the individual car driver might drive less km, but the
total overall of distance driven by cars on the road is still
increasing, despite increasing congestion.

Jeroen



Ian Fiddies wrote:
> Take away the roads and the cars disappear as well it seems. If it was
> not for congestion things would be a lot worse, this is of course hard
> to image but from what I've been reading almost certainly true.
> /Ian Fiddies
>
> Skype- ianfiddies
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:03:39 +0200
> From: jeroen.verhoeven-octSvtrGuH/[email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> CC: carfree_network-3hfIC0tI0F+k/[email protected]; [email protected]
> Subject: congestion as a good thing
>
> So if I understand well, I have been reading arguments basically
> saying that
>
>     * congestion and and overdose of cars is a good tool fight the
>       damage and nuisance caused by cars. So the more congestion the
>       better?
>
>
> Of course building more roads should not be the alternative to
> congestion, but  I understood the discussion was about reducing the
> number of cars on the road.
>
> Is congestion better to reduce the negative impacts of cars on the
> environment than reducing the number of cars on the road, even if
> these fewer cars may drive a longer distance?
>
> Looking at the increasing impact of cars on the environment over the
> past decades. These impacts are still rising, together with increasing
> congestion.
>
> -- 
> Jeroen Verhoeven
> Car Efficiency Campaign
> Friends of the Earth Europe
> T: +32.2542.61.01
> skype: jeroen_verhoeven (Brussels)
> Mobile: +32.477.46.31.81
>
>
> Manfred Treber wrote:
>
>     I don't want to get rid of congestion.
>
>     Because we have one fundamental premise - I quote from IPCC-WG3 of AR4, 
>     p. 329:
>
>     "Worldwide travel studies have shown that the average time budget for 
>     travel is roughly constant worldwide, with
>     the relative speed of travel determining distances travelled yearly 
>     (Schafer, 2000)."
>
>     That means if you build more roads to get rid of congestion the "saved 
>     time" will be reinvested in longer distances traveled.
>     Which leads to higher emissions.
>
>     Best regards
>
>     Manfred
>
>     --------------------------------
>     Manfred Treber
>     Senior Adviser Climate/Transport
>     Germanwatch e.V.
>     Dr. Werner-Schuster-Haus
>     Kaiserstr. 201
>     D-53113 Bonn
>
>     Tel. ++49-(0)228-60492-14, Fax -19
>     http://www.germanwatch.org
>
>     Magnus Nilsson schrieb:
>       
>
>         Emission figures for hybrids is a problem. The lowwer the emissions in
>         congested situations.
>         But we want to get rid of congestions, don´t we?
>         And when hybrids moves out of the cities they are not better than any
>         petrol car.
>         This is of course all about the test cycle.
>
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------
>         Magnus Nilsson
>         Trafikexpert/Transport campaigner
>
>         Naturskyddsföreningen/Swedish Society for Nature Conservation
>         Box 4625
>         SE-116 91 Stockholm
>         www.naturskyddsforeningen.se <http://www.naturskyddsforeningen.se>
>
>         Tel:            +46-(0)8-702 65 98
>         Mobil tel:    +46-(0)708-99 66 88
>         Fax            +46-(0)8-702 08 55
>
>         E-post: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>
>         Så hittar du naturpärlorna i Stockholmstrakten:
>         www.utinaturen.nu <http://www.utinaturen.nu>
>
>         Du är väl medlem? På vår hemsida www.snf.se <http://www.snf.se> kan du bli det eller så
>         klickar du här direkt 
>         http://www.snf.se/snf/medlem.cfm
>
>
>
>             
>
>     >
>       
>
>
> drive the future, drive down emissions. check out www.mundo-cars.eu <http://www.mundo-cars.eu>!
>
> -- 
> Jeroen Verhoeven
> Car Efficiency Campaign
> Friends of the Earth Europe
> T: +32.2542.61.01
> skype: jeroen_verhoeven (Brussels)
> Mobile: +32.477.46.31.81
>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Discover the new Windows Vista Learn more!
> <http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE>

drive the future, drive down emissions. check out www.mundo-cars.eu!

-- 
Jeroen Verhoeven
Car Efficiency Campaign
Friends of the Earth Europe
T: +32.2542.61.01
skype: jeroen_verhoeven (Brussels)
Mobile: +32.477.46.31.81


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