Re: Re: genoa protests

>>>>> "bijan" == Bijan Parsia <bparsia-vEoVa6Jh+/J4piUD7e9S/[email protected]> writes:


  >> >>>>> "jane" == jane craig <[email protected]> writes:
  >>
  jane> hey, rocket scientist, that dead protester was about to throw
  jane> a fire extinguisher at that carabinieri jeep (not a
  jane> particularly "heavy" vehicle).
  >>
  >> Which doesn't justify shooting him. *Twice*. *In the head*.

  bijan> I've heard that one of the head injuries was from a stone.

Yes, he was only shot *once* in the head at point-blank range, then
run over by a huge police vehicle.

  bijan> Still, head shot still seems unwarrented (live *ammo* seems
  bijan> unwarrented).

Absolutely. I doubt he needed shooting, but what about putting a round
into his femur? But then here in the US cops aren't taught to "shoot
to wound" but to shoot for "center mass" (which isn't the
head). Probably the same in Italy.

As with *every* police shooting ever, the problem is both individual
*and* a matter of police training. No different here.

  bijan> But, reports seem to be leading that it was a relatively
  bijan> untrained officer, perhaps panicing.

A 20 year old reservist apparently. "Hospitalized for shock" --
Italian gov't seems to want to backpedal on this one very
fast. Interesting that all these nasty Americans who keep emailing me
about this are *more* committed to justifying the murder than the
Italian govt seems to be.

  >> From the photos I've looked at, it seems unlikely that the fire
  >> extinguisher would have done much harm, since the cop was well
  >> sheltered inside the jeep.

  bijan> Yes, I agree. And, *from what I can tell*, fending off the
  bijan> (to be thrown) fire extinguisher seems to have been possible
  bijan> and reasonable.

  bijan> The big issue, IMHO, for me, at the moment, is why live ammo
  bijan> was issued and not strongly discouraged.

For me, the bigger issue is that the cops with their widespread
brutality and thuggery *created the entire insane scene*; the reports
of them clubbing and gassing innocent people are legion and
undisputed. If that creates an environment in which *some* protesters
feel they should fight back, I can't work up much condemnation of
them.

  >> somehow, your portrayal failed
  jane> to mention that fact.

  bijan> Not "somehow", I'm pretty sure Kendall didn't *know* at the
  bijan> time. Be that as it may, a correction or follow up seems
  bijan> reasonable.

Yes, I edited it slightly on Saturday to be a bit less jarring with
the facts as I knew them.

  >> so, he was actually armed with
  jane> something considerably more threatening than a roll of tape.
  >>
  >> Even if so, that still leaves open the question whether the
  >> shooting was justified.

  bijan> Yes.

  bijan> [snip]
  jane> i hope that one day, kendall, you attack a jeep full of police
  jane> officers with a fire extinguisher.

  bijan> Why would you *hope* that? That's deranged. You hope that
  bijan> Kendall goes violent?

I took it pretty clearly as a wish for me to get the "Giuliani
Treatment"; a rather nasty, hostile thing to say to a total stranger,
doncha think?

Kendall