My response to Sam Friedman

"'Hunter Gray' [email protected] [marxist]" <[email protected]> Sat, 06 Dec 2014 16:38:47 +0000
Newsgroups gmane.politics.marxism.analysis
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I find itstrange -- very strange -- Sam, that you feel somehow obligated to=
repeatedly warn people about my assessments of the cases I gave where theex=
tremes of PC backfired.=20
Inaddition to the current one, University of Virginia, now much in the medi=
a withRolling Stone retracting all and trying to apologize , I gave only tw=
oothers in my just sent message: the Duke Lacrosse matter where allcharges =
were dropped, the accused students totally cleared, and the prosecutingDist=
rict Attorney removed from office and then disbarred -- and thepolygamy cas=
e where the highest Texas courts stated they could no evidenceof abuse and =
ordered the several hundred children returned to theirparents, which was th=
en done.=20
As Irecall, you said in both instances that you had not followed those case=
s much,if at all -- although I posted a great deal on them. Infact, you -- =
yourself -- are quoted on my Duke/Lacrosse page literally to thateffect.
My shortanswer to you, or to anyone concerned about the accuracy of my asse=
ssments, issimply and politely: read the links I provided in my early morni=
ng postof today.
All best,
Hunter Bear

SAM WRITES THIS MORNING:
I am not convinced by what Hunter writes on this topic. He lists a lot of c=
ases where he says his skepticism was right, but Ihave rarely been convince=
d by him or the press that we really know whathappened. I come closest to b=
eing convinced in relation to the Mormon ase.

Igenerally have little interest in media blow ups of these sorts that focus=
 onindividual incidents, and tend not to put too much credence in it when t=
hey"turn out to have been frauds." The media abound with lies andhipsters t=
rying to spin tales of innocence and guilt. Sometimes theseissues are impor=
tant, like the Scottsboro case or, on another more contemporarycase, the Fo=
rt Lee case, as a couple of clear examples. But we almostnever get a defini=
tive solution to them, though the media often claim they dugout the truth.

These arethe same media who assured us there were WMD in Iraq, and lie on s=
o much else,or let themselves be fooled, as when they report what the polic=
e say as havingconsiderable truth value.

On thisone, I will not get too involved, but would not take the reports Hun=
ter pointsto as definitive. This may be a situation where the administrativ=
einvestigation by Teresa Sullivan et al. May be the most believable report.=
 Or not.

I am sureHunter believes he is right in what he says. I respect him in many=
 ways, but Ialso tend to be skeptical of what some have termed "thespectacl=
e."=20

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail










HUNTER GRAY [HUNTER BEAR/JOHN R SALTER JR] Mi'kmaq / St. Francis Abenaki / =
St. Regis Mohawk=20
Protected by Na=C2=B4shdo=C2=B4i=C2=B4ba=C2=B4i=C2=B4=20
and Ohkwari' . Check out our massive social justice website:=20
www.hunterbear.org=20
Member, National Writers Union AFL-CIO=20

Core dimensions of my Community Organizing course:
http://www.labornet.org/news/0000/hbear.htm

My expanded/updated "Organizer's Book,"=20
JACKSON MISSISSIPPI -- with a new 10,000=20
word introduction by me. Covers much of my=20
confrontational social justice organizing life to=20
date. Contains much how-to grassroots organizing=20
methodology: http://hunterbear.org/jackson.htm

See this for mini-bio, efforts to prevent JM=E2=80=99s appearance in
Mississippi, a wide range of its many reviews, and some
photos: http://www.amazon.com/John-R.-Salter/e/B001KMEHWY/ref=3Dntt_dp_epwb=
k_0

The Stormy Adoption of an Indian Child [My Father]:=20
http://hunterbear.org/James%20and%20Salter%20and%20Dad.htm=20
(Photos)=20


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<div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div><div><font size=
=3D"2"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b><span style=3D"line-height: 107=
%; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Calibri">I find it
strange -- very strange -- Sam, that you feel somehow obligated to
repeatedly&nbsp;warn people about my assessments of the cases I gave where =
the
extremes of&nbsp;PC backfired. </font></span></b></p><font face=3D"Times Ne=
w Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b><span style=3D"line-height: 107=
%; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Calibri">In
addition to the current one, University of Virginia, now much in the media =
with
Rolling Stone retracting all and trying to apologize&nbsp;, I gave only two
others&nbsp;in my just sent message:&nbsp; the Duke Lacrosse matter where a=
ll
charges were dropped, the accused students totally cleared, and the prosecu=
ting
District Attorney removed from office and then&nbsp;disbarred -- and the
polygamy case where the highest Texas courts stated they could&nbsp;no evid=
ence
of abuse and ordered the several hundred children&nbsp;returned to their
parents, which was then&nbsp;done.&nbsp; </font></span></b></p><font face=
=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b><span style=3D"line-height: 107=
%; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Calibri">As I
recall, you said in both instances that you had not followed those cases mu=
ch,
if&nbsp;at all -- although I posted&nbsp;a great deal&nbsp;on them.&nbsp; I=
n
fact, you -- yourself -- are quoted on my Duke/Lacrosse page literally to t=
hat
effect.</font></span></b></p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b><span style=3D"line-height: 107=
%; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Calibri">My short
answer to you, or to anyone concerned about the accuracy of my assessments,=
 is
simply and politely:&nbsp; read the links I provided in my early morning po=
st
of today.</font></span></b></p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b><span style=3D"line-height: 107=
%; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Calibri">All best,</font></span></b></p>=
<font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b><span style=3D"line-height: 107=
%; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Calibri">Hunter Bear</font></span></b></=
p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight: =
normal;"><span style=3D"line-height: 107%; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"=
Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></b></p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D=
"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight: =
normal;"><span style=3D"line-height: 107%; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"=
Calibri">SAM WRITES THIS MORNING:</font></span></b></p><font face=3D"Times =
New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b><font face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"=
3">I am not convinced by what Hunter writes on this topic.
&nbsp;He lists a lot of cases where he says his skepticism was right, but I
have rarely been convinced by him or the press that we really know what
happened. I come closest to being convinced in relation to the Mormon
&nbsp;ase.</font></b></p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b><span style=3D"line-height: 107=
%; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></b></p><fo=
nt face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b><span style=3D"line-height: 107=
%; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Calibri">I
generally have little interest in media blow ups of these sorts that focus =
on
individual incidents, and tend not to put too much credence in it when they
"turn out to have been frauds." &nbsp;The media abound with lies and
hipsters trying to spin tales of innocence and guilt. &nbsp;Sometimes these
issues are important, like the Scottsboro case or, on another more contempo=
rary
case, the Fort Lee case, as a couple of clear examples. &nbsp;But we almost
never get a definitive solution to them, though the media often claim they =
dug
out the truth.</font></span></b></p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"=
3">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b><span style=3D"line-height: 107=
%; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></b></p><fo=
nt face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b><span style=3D"line-height: 107=
%; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Calibri">These are
the same media who assured us there were WMD in Iraq, and lie on so much el=
se,
or let themselves be fooled, as when they report what the police say as hav=
ing
considerable truth value.</font></span></b></p><font face=3D"Times New Roma=
n" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b><span style=3D"line-height: 107=
%; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></b></p><fo=
nt face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b><span style=3D"line-height: 107=
%; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Calibri">On this
one, I will not get too involved, but would not take the reports Hunter poi=
nts
to as definitive. &nbsp;This may be a situation where the administrative
investigation by Teresa Sullivan et al. May be the most believable report.
&nbsp;Or not.</font></span></b></p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3=
">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b><span style=3D"line-height: 107=
%; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></b></p><fo=
nt face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b><span style=3D"line-height: 107=
%; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Calibri">I am sure
Hunter believes he is right in what he says. I respect him in many ways, bu=
t I
also tend to be skeptical of what some have termed "the
spectacle."&nbsp;<br>
<br>
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail</font></span></b></p><font face=3D"Times New Roma=
n" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b><span style=3D"line-height: 107=
%; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></b></p><fo=
nt face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight: =
normal;"><span style=3D"line-height: 107%; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"=
Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></b></p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D=
"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight: =
normal;"><span style=3D"line-height: 107%; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"=
Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></b></p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D=
"3">

</font></font></div><div><font size=3D"2"><br></font></div><div><font size=
=3D"2"><br></font></div><div><font size=3D"2"><b><br></b></font></div>
HUNTER GRAY [HUNTER BEAR/JOHN R SALTER JR] Mi'kmaq / St. Francis Abenaki / =
St. Regis Mohawk=20
<br>
Protected by Na=C2=B4shdo=C2=B4i=C2=B4ba=C2=B4i=C2=B4=20
<br>
and Ohkwari' . Check out our massive social justice website:=20
<br>
www.hunterbear.org=20=20
<br>
Member, National Writers Union AFL-CIO=20
<br>

<br>
Core dimensions of my Community Organizing course:
<br>
http://www.labornet.org/news/0000/hbear.htm
<br>

<br>
My expanded/updated "Organizer's Book,"=20
<br>
JACKSON MISSISSIPPI -- with a new 10,000=20
<br>
word introduction by me. Covers much of my=20
<br>
confrontational social justice organizing life to=20
<br>
date. Contains much how-to grassroots organizing=20
<br>
methodology: http://hunterbear.org/jackson.htm
<br>

<br>
See this for mini-bio, efforts to prevent JM=E2=80=99s appearance in
<br>
Mississippi,  a wide range of its many reviews, and some
<br>
photos:   http://www.amazon.com/John-R.-Salter/e/B001KMEHWY/ref=3Dntt_dp_ep=
wbk_0
<br>

<br>
The Stormy Adoption of an Indian Child [My Father]:=20
<br>
http://hunterbear.org/James%20and%20Salter%20and%20Dad.htm=20=20
<br>
(Photos)=20
<br>




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