Re: Democratic Socialists Further Advance
"Mark Baugher" <[email protected]> Tue, 28 Jul 2026 12:33:52 -0700
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--Apple-Mail=_41D8C5B8-9327-4360-AF7F-9AB019D5B397 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On Jul 26, 2026, at 14:54, Dennis Brasky via groups.io <dmozart1756=3Dgma= [email protected]> wrote: >=20 > If the party leadership does this, they would basically be expelling the = left, paving the way for a new party of the left,=20 The capitalist media was all atwitter this morning about this: https://www.= foxnews.com/media/dsa-co-chair-embraces-abolishing-senate-ice-borders-democ= ratic-infighting-escalates "A top Democratic socialist leader on Sunday embraced abolishing the Senate= <https://www.foxnews.com/category/politics/elections/senate>, national bor= ders, prisons and more, laying bare the movement's sweeping agenda as ideol= ogical divisions within the Democratic Party <https://www.foxnews.com/categ= ory/us/democratic-party> continue to deepen." I think this is what would be considered part of a "far left" platform in t= he US today, but it falls far short of a socialist program for many of the = reasons covered by Tony and others on this list: It is top-down socialism t= hat grants gifts to the working class in the form of reforms, however radic= al. It is also a gift to the US "far left" who advocate abolishing the poli= ce, the borders, the military, etc. Here "far left" means folks with the mo= st radical demands. They don't want to reform the police or even defund the= police, they want to abolish the police! Same with borders and same with i= mperialism. Give me a reform and I can give you a more radical one. What's wrong with this is that we want the working class to collectively an= d democratically make the decisions on policing, borders, forever wars, cor= porate ownership and running the nation. And how do we do that? Non-reformist reforms (Gorz), transitional demands (Trotsky), and Luxemburg= who wrote about "The struggle for reforms is its means; the social revolut= ion, its goal" (https://socialistworker.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Re= form.pdf). Their revolutionary-socialist strategies focus on reforms that i= ncrease workers power.=20 Abolishing police as a plank in a reform platform that becomes legislation = does nothing, by itself, to empower the people who are most affected by cri= me in a capitalist social order of "all against all" where powerful exploit= powerless. Community self defense or "peace keeping" might be transitional= , non-reformist reforms if they deepen democratic organization within the c= ommunity and transfer power from a state entity to organized working people= . Mark p.s. One final note. There is a body of contemporary work on transitional/n= on-reformist reforms that is news to me (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-= reformist_reform). This includes work produced by legal scholars like Amna = Akbar (https://www.nyulawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/NYULaw-93-3-= Akbar.pdf). I have not digested these materials yet, but the crossover is i= nteresting regardless of the content. -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#42685): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/42685 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/120458891/6024700 -=3D-=3D- POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. #4 Do not exceed five posts a day. -=3D-=3D- Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/10173629/6024700/1441833971= /xyzzy [[email protected]] -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- --Apple-Mail=_41D8C5B8-9327-4360-AF7F-9AB019D5B397 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset= =3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-= mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><br id=3D"lineBreakAtBeginning= OfMessage"><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Jul 26, 2026, at 14:5= 4, Dennis Brasky via groups.io <[email protected]> wr= ote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset=3D"UTF= -8"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(54, 54, 54); color: rgb(54, 54, 54); fo= nt-family: georgia; font-size: large; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps= : normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-ali= gn: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; wid= ows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-co= lor: rgb(247, 247, 247); text-decoration: none; display: inline !important;= float: none;">If the party leadership does this, they would basically be e= xpelling the left, paving the way for a new party of the left,<span class= =3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></blockquote></div><br= ><div>The capitalist media was all atwitter this morning about this: https:= //www.foxnews.com/media/dsa-co-chair-embraces-abolishing-senate-ice-borders= -democratic-infighting-escalates</div><div><br></div><div>"A top Democratic= socialist leader on Sunday embraced abolishing <a data-omtr-intcmp=3D= "fnc_media_article_main-content_article-body_6_1" href=3D"https://www.foxne= ws.com/category/politics/elections/senate" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopene= r noreferrer">the Senate</a>, national borders, prisons and more, laying ba= re the movement's sweeping agenda as ideological divisions within the = <a data-omtr-intcmp=3D"fnc_media_article_main-content_article-body_6_2" hre= f=3D"https://www.foxnews.com/category/us/democratic-party" target=3D"_blank= " rel=3D"noopener">Democratic Party</a> continue to deepen."</div><div= ><br></div><div>I think this is what would be considered part of a "far lef= t" platform in the US today, but it falls far short of a socialist program = for many of the reasons covered by Tony and others on this list: It is top-= down socialism that grants gifts to the working class in the form of reform= s, however radical. It is also a gift to the US "far left" who advocate abo= lishing the police, the borders, the military, etc. Here "far left" means f= olks with the most radical demands. They don't want to reform the police or= even defund the police, they want to abolish the police! Same with borders= and same with imperialism. Give me a reform and I can give you a more radi= cal one.</div><div><br></div><div>What's wrong with this is that we want th= e working class to collectively and democratically make the decisions on po= licing, borders, forever wars, corporate ownership and running the nation. = And how do we do that?</div><div><br></div><div>Non-reformist reforms (Gorz= ), transitional demands (Trotsky), and Luxemburg who wrote about "The strug= gle for reforms is its means; the social revolution, its goal" (https://soc= ialistworker.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Reform.pdf). Their revolution= ary-socialist strategies focus on reforms that increase workers power. = ;</div><div><br></div><div>Abolishing police as a plank in a reform platfor= m that becomes legislation does nothing, by itself, to empower the people w= ho are most affected by crime in a capitalist social order of "all against = all" where powerful exploit powerless. Community self defense or "peace kee= ping" might be transitional, non-reformist reforms if they deepen democrati= c organization within the community and transfer power from a state entity = to organized working people.</div><div><br></div><div>Mark</div><div><br></= div><div>p.s. One final note. There is a body of contemporary work on trans= itional/non-reformist reforms that is news to me (https://en.wikipedia.org/= wiki/Non-reformist_reform). This includes work produced by legal scholars l= ike Amna Akbar (https://www.nyulawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/NYU= Law-93-3-Akbar.pdf). I have not digested these materials yet, but the cross= over is interesting regardless of the content.</div><div><br></div><div><br= ></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br></body></html> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> <hr> Groups.io Links:<p> =20 You receive all messages sent to this group. =20 =20 <p> <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/42685">Vi= ew/Reply Online (#42685)</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DRe:%20Re= %3A%20%5Bmarxmail%5D%20Democratic%20Socialists%20Further%20Advance">Reply t= o Group</a> =20 | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DPriva= te:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bmarxmail%5D%20Democratic%20Socialists%20Further%20Ad= vance">Reply to Sender</a> =20 | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/mt/120458891/6024700">Mute= This Topic</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/marxmail/post">New Topic</a> <br> <hr style=3D"width:25%;margin-right:100%">POSTING RULES & NOTES<br /> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.<br /> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.<br /> #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.<br /> #4 Do not exceed five posts a day.<hr style=3D"width:25%;margin-right:100%"= > <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/marxmail/editsub/6024700">Your Subscription<= /a> | <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Contact Group Owner</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/10173629/6024700/1441833971/x= yzzy">Unsubscribe</a> [[email protected]]<br> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> --Apple-Mail=_41D8C5B8-9327-4360-AF7F-9AB019D5B397--