Re: Trump organizing legal version of January 6th
"Marv Gandall via groups.io" <[email protected]> Sun, 02 Aug 2026 12:34:54 -0700
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--bt4gzq1tQzIoygu3ZunX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [Edited Message Follows] [Reason: editorial] On Sun, Aug 2, 2026 at 04:29 AM, John Reimann wrote: When our general conception of what is happening in the world is contradict= ed by the actual facts, then it's time to reconsider our general conception= . This is one of those times. Marv Gandall writes: "Trump may try to contes= t the election, of course, but if anything the odds are less in his favour = than on his previous attempt in 2020." He ignores what happened in 2020. He= wanted to call out the National Guard on two separate occasions, first dur= ing the George Floyd protests and then after he lost the election. On both = occasions, top officials in his administration opposed it and made clear th= at they would not obey. These included top military officials such as Mark = Milley and Trump's AG, Bill Barr. Trump learned from that and made sure not= to appoint any such types this time. All you have to do is look at his rec= ent cabinet meeting to see that. Marv then comments on the numerous policies that the capitalist class is un= happy about and says that they won't allow Trump to steal the election beca= use that would set him free to continue those and similar policies. He impl= ies that the capitalist class won't "passively accept a fundamental assault= on their sacred icon, the US Constitution." That's exactly the point! Pass= ively or not, what has stopped Trump's assault so far and what force will s= top him? The Supreme Court? We should never forget the immense significance= of the MAGA majority's ruling that nothing Trump does or did while conduct= ing his duties as president can be considered to be criminal. Think about t= hat ruling. It means he can take a bribe from a foreign power to carry out = a policy contrary to the interests of US capitalism and that is not illegal= . He can order the murder of domestic opponents and that is not illegal. Th= is unprecedented ruling is based on nothing in the law nor the constitution= . The Supreme Court MAGA majority is not under the control of the capitalis= t class. *The Supreme Court remains firmly under the control of the capitalist class= . It has retained all of the constitutional powers alloted to it to decide = commercial disputes within the class and to act as the ultimate guardian of= capitalist power and property rights. =C2=A0Its rulings have instead been = mainly aimed at the democratic rights and social gains of women, blacks, im= migrants, trans people, and the poor and most vulnerable in society.* *The Court has made it easier for the administration to accomplish these ro= llbacks by executive decree rather than more cumbersome legislative or regu= latory action in accordance with the Unitary Executive Theory favoured by t= he Trump appointed conservative majority.* *The Court has also sanctioned increased employer attacks on worker protect= ion and union rights. It has ruled against the labour movement in matters s= uch as DEI hiring , DOGE's mass firings of federal employees, company repri= sals against =C2=A0union organizers and their access to workplaces, dues ch= eck-off provisions in the public sector, union liability for damage to prop= erty during strikes, and it has weakened the power of regulatory agencies l= ike the NLRB and OHSA charged with overseeing conditions in the workplace.* *All of the above measures have met with the approval of the US ruling clas= s. Even its liberal wing represented by Jamie Dimon and others have remaine= d silent or complained only mildly about the "excesses" of the anti-democra= tic and anti-labour executive decrees of the Trump administration supported= by the conservative-controlled judicial and congressional branches of gove= rnment.* What other institution can stop Trump? The US military brass? They are now = led by a complete MAGA flunkey and the members of the US officer corps is f= amous for its looking towards their own careers first and foremost. It's po= ssible that a layer of the NCO's could revolt, but not without a mass movem= ent from below. I don't see that happening. All of which indicates what I've been writing about for a few years now: Th= at what we face is a strong tendency towards Bonapartism. That's the genera= l conception that Marv (and others) should consider. *I've considered it at length in other threads with Tony, Hari, and others.= In my view, the term "Bonapartism" and the scholarly discussion surroundin= g it survives only because Marx did not live into the 20th century to descr= ibe its modern fascist incarnation.* Under Bonapartism, the capitalist class loses its control over the Bonapart= ist. I don't think we are all the way there yet, but if Trump overturns the= November election results, that will be a huge step - possibly a decisive = one - in that direction. John here is hedging his bets. "Under Bonapartism, the capitalist class los= es its control over the Bonapartist. I don't think we are all the way there= yet, but if Trump overturns the November election results, that will be a = huge step - possibly a decisive one - in that direction.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0Wit= hout question it will be =E2=80=9Cdecisive=E2=80=9D and not only "possibly"= -=C2=A0 IF Trump overturns the elections.=C2=A0 That=E2=80=99s what this d= iscussion has been about. *I believe his odds are less this time than during his first term, that his= standing with the elites and the masses is lower than it has ever been, an= d that if the Democrats take the House, his executive authority will be muc= h reduced. For this, I=E2=80=99ve been accused by John and his co-thinkers = of =E2=80=9Ccomplacency to the hilt=E2=80=9D.* *They believe otherwise. The= y think the odds are greater than ever before that Trump will be able to ca= ncel the election and wrest power and autonomy from the bourgeoisie.* *It remains to be seen whether I=E2=80=99m being too complacent or they=E2= =80=99re sharing the widespread liberal panic about a looming fascist takeo= ver.* One last point: In general socialists have ignored Trump's attacks on the c= apitalist democratic institutions. These include the attacks on major capit= alist law firms, on major universities and on the capitalist media. Sociali= sts have also tended to ignore Trump's weaponization of the DOJ for his own= personal interests. They have tended to ignore Trump's unprecedented corru= ption - the tens of millions of dollars the capitalist class has been force= d to pay Trump - pure extortion. *Not so, if you routinely read and listen to the mainstream liberal or alte= rnative socialist media. These sources are regularly cited on this list to = document the above abuses.* I think most socialists figure that's all within their class so why should = we care? This method of thought is also inherent in the insistence that the= Republican and Democratic parties are basically the same so we should neve= r do anything to try to keep the Republicans - meaning Trump and his minion= s - out of office if the only alternative is the Democrats. *Also not so. Absent a socialist electoral alternative to their left, most = anticapitalist socialists, including myself, favour Democrats over Republic= ans. This is because the former are more inclined to defend, however half-h= eartedly, the democratic rights and social gains won in struggle by the wor= king class and its allies. Also, there is an understanding that the conscio= usness and militancy of the masses are advanced through victories rather th= an defeats. Within the DP, most socialists* *favour its left wing, the DSA.* *The same holds true for all of the developed capitalist countries where fo= rces to the left of the liberals and social democrats are also now far remo= ved from power. The only other choice available to socialists is effective = abstention from electoral politics and relegation to the political sideline= s with a corresponding lack of influence within the working class.* Behind this super revolutionary view actually lies passivity. Joseph Green = is right - it's "complacency to the hilt". It's time to wake up. -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#42734): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/42734 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/120549500/6024700 -=3D-=3D- POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. #4 Do not exceed five posts a day. -=3D-=3D- Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/10173629/6024700/1441833971= /xyzzy [[email protected]] -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- --bt4gzq1tQzIoygu3ZunX Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <p>[Edited Message Follows]<br> [Reason: editorial]</p> <div>On Sun, Aug 2, 2026 at 04:29 AM, John Reimann wrote:</div> <div> </div> <div>When our general conception of what is happening in the world is contr= adicted by the actual facts, then it's time to reconsider our general conce= ption. This is one of those times. Marv Gandall writes: "Trump may try to c= ontest the election, of course, but if anything the odds are less in his fa= vour than on his previous attempt in 2020." He ignores what happened in 202= 0. He wanted to call out the National Guard on two separate occasions, firs= t during the George Floyd protests and then after he lost the election. On = both occasions, top officials in his administration opposed it and made cle= ar that they would not obey. These included top military officials such as = Mark Milley and Trump's AG, Bill Barr. Trump learned from that and made sur= e not to appoint any such types this time. All you have to do is look at hi= s recent cabinet meeting to see that.<br /><br />Marv then comments on the = numerous policies that the capitalist class is unhappy about and says that = they won't allow Trump to steal the election because that would set him fre= e to continue those and similar policies. He implies that the capitalist cl= ass won't "passively accept a fundamental assault on their sacred icon, the= US Constitution." That's exactly the point! Passively or not, what has sto= pped Trump's assault so far and what force will stop him? The Supreme Court= ? We should never forget the immense significance of the MAGA majority's ru= ling that nothing Trump does or did while conducting his duties as presiden= t can be considered to be criminal. Think about that ruling. It means he ca= n take a bribe from a foreign power to carry out a policy contrary to the i= nterests of US capitalism and that is not illegal. He can order the murder = of domestic opponents and that is not illegal. This unprecedented ruling is= based on nothing in the law nor the constitution. The Supreme Court MAGA m= ajority is not under the control of the capitalist class.<br /><br /><stron= g>The Supreme Court remains firmly under the control of the capitalist clas= s. It has retained all of the constitutional powers alloted to it to decide= commercial disputes within the class and to act as the ultimate guardian o= f capitalist power and property rights. Its rulings have instead been= mainly aimed at the democratic rights and social gains of women, blacks, i= mmigrants, trans people, and the poor and most vulnerable in society. </str= ong></div> <div> </div> <div><strong>The Court has made it easier for the administration to accompl= ish these rollbacks by executive decree rather than more cumbersome legisla= tive or regulatory action in accordance with the Unitary Executive Theory f= avoured by the Trump appointed conservative majority. </strong>= <br /><br /><strong>The Court has also sanctioned increased employer attack= s on worker protection and union rights. It has ruled against the labour mo= vement in matters such as DEI hiring , DOGE's mass firings of federal emplo= yees, company reprisals against union organizers and their access to = workplaces, dues check-off provisions in the public sector, union liability= for damage to property during strikes, and it has weakened the power of re= gulatory agencies like the NLRB and OHSA charged with overseeing conditions= in the workplace.</strong> </div> <div> </div> <div><strong>All of the above measures have met with the approval of the US= ruling class. Even its liberal wing represented by Jamie Dimon and others = have remained silent or complained only mildly about the "excesses" of the = anti-democratic and anti-labour executive decrees of the Trump administrati= on supported by the conservative-controlled judicial and congressional bran= ches of government.</strong></div> <div> </div> <div>What other institution can stop Trump? The US military brass? They are= now led by a complete MAGA flunkey and the members of the US officer corps= is famous for its looking towards their own careers first and foremost. It= 's possible that a layer of the NCO's could revolt, but not without a mass = movement from below. I don't see that happening.<br /><br />All of which in= dicates what I've been writing about for a few years now: That what we face= is a strong tendency towards Bonapartism. That's the general conception th= at Marv (and others) should consider.</div> <div> </div> <div><strong>I've considered it at length in other threads with Tony, Hari,= and others. In my view, the term "Bonapartism" and the scholarly discussio= n surrounding it survives only because Marx did not live into the 20th cent= ury to describe its modern fascist incarnation.</strong></div> <div> </div> <div>Under Bonapartism, the capitalist class loses its control over the Bon= apartist. I don't think we are all the way there yet, but if Trump overturn= s the November election results, that will be a huge step - possibly a deci= sive one - in that direction.<br /><br /><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;"= >John here is hedging his bets. "Under Bonapartism, the capitalist class lo= ses its control over the Bonapartist. I don't think we are all the way ther= e yet, but if Trump overturns the November election results, that will be a= huge step - possibly a decisive one - in that direction.” With= out question it will be “decisive” and not only "possibly" -&nb= sp; IF Trump overturns the elections. That’s what this discussi= on has been about.</span></div> <div> </div> <div><strong>I believe his odds are less this time than during his first te= rm, that his standing with the elites and the masses is lower than it has e= ver been, and that if the Democrats take the House, his executive authority= will be much reduced. For this, I’ve been accused by John and his co= -thinkers of “complacency to the hilt”. </strong><strong>= They believe otherwise. They think the odds are greater than ever before th= at Trump will be able to cancel the election and wrest power and autonomy f= rom the bourgeoisie. </strong></div> <div> </div> <div><strong>It remains to be seen whether I’m being too complacent o= r they’re sharing the widespread liberal panic about a looming fascis= t takeover.</strong></div> <div> </div> <div>One last point: In general socialists have ignored Trump's attacks on = the capitalist democratic institutions. These include the attacks on major = capitalist law firms, on major universities and on the capitalist media. So= cialists have also tended to ignore Trump's weaponization of the DOJ for hi= s own personal interests. They have tended to ignore Trump's unprecedented = corruption - the tens of millions of dollars the capitalist class has been = forced to pay Trump - pure extortion. <br /><br /><strong>Not so, if y= ou routinely read and listen to the mainstream liberal or alternative socia= list media. These sources are regularly cited on this list to document the = above abuses.</strong><br /><br />I think most socialists figure that's all= within their class so why should we care? This method of thought is also i= nherent in the insistence that the Republican and Democratic parties are ba= sically the same so we should never do anything to try to keep the Republic= ans - meaning Trump and his minions - out of office if the only alternative= is the Democrats. <br /><br /><strong>Also not so. Absent a socialist= electoral alternative to their left, most anticapitalist socialists, inclu= ding myself, favour Democrats over Republicans. This is because the former = are more inclined to defend, however half-heartedly, the democratic rights = and social gains won in struggle by the working class and its allies. Also,= there is an understanding that the consciousness and militancy of the mass= es are advanced through victories rather than defeats. Within the DP, most = socialists</strong></div> <div><strong> favour its left wing, the DSA. </strong></div> <div> </div> <div><strong>The same holds true for all of the developed capitalist countr= ies where forces to the left of the liberals and social democrats are also = now far removed from power. The only other choice available to socialists i= s effective abstention from electoral politics and relegation to the politi= cal sidelines with a corresponding lack of influence within the working cla= ss. </strong><br /><br />Behind this super revolutionary view ac= tually lies passivity. Joseph Green is right - it's "complacency to the hil= t".<br /><br />It's time to wake up.</div> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> <hr> Groups.io Links:<p> =20 You receive all messages sent to this group. =20 =20 <p> <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/42734">Vi= ew/Reply Online (#42734)</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DRe:%20Re= %3A%20%5Bmarxmail%5D%20Trump%20organizing%20legal%20version%20of%20January%= 206th">Reply to Group</a> =20 | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DPri= vate:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bmarxmail%5D%20Trump%20organizing%20legal%20version= %20of%20January%206th">Reply to Sender</a> =20 | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/mt/120549500/6024700">Mute= This Topic</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/marxmail/post">New Topic</a> <br> <hr style=3D"width:25%;margin-right:100%">POSTING RULES & NOTES<br /> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.<br /> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.<br /> #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.<br /> #4 Do not exceed five posts a day.<hr style=3D"width:25%;margin-right:100%"= > <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/marxmail/editsub/6024700">Your Subscription<= /a> | <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Contact Group Owner</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/10173629/6024700/1441833971/x= yzzy">Unsubscribe</a> [[email protected]]<br> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> --bt4gzq1tQzIoygu3ZunX--