Re: Trump organizing legal version of January 6th
"Marv Gandall via groups.io" <[email protected]> Sun, 02 Aug 2026 22:19:45 -0700
| Newsgroups | gmane.politics.marxism.marxmail |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--lNkeZTb8NxAF5M2omWoN Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Aug 2, 2026 at 08:53 PM, Anthony Teso wrote: >=20 > Marv=E2=80=99s strongest point is that we still use the term "Bonapartism= " only > because Marx did not live long enough to describe modern fascism. But tha= t > idea needs a real argument, not just a mention. What makes fascism > different is not just its extremism, but how it creates a fighting force > outside the state=E2=80=94a mobilized petty-bourgeois group that is organ= ized > separately and then brought into the state, destroying the workers=E2=80= =99 > movement first. Hi Tony. I believe I previously drew your attention to Bonaparte's reliance= on a fighting force outside the state to intimidate and suppress the worke= rs and bourgeois democrats in the wake of their 1848 revolution. His 1851 c= oup d'etat, his unleashing of the lumpenproletarian Society of December 10 = , his assumption of dictatorial powers as Emperor, and his suppression of a= ll independent institutions and democratic rights associated with bourgeois= democracy was a striking foreshadowing of fascism, not of the Trump admini= stration. As I noted earlier, you strip Bonapartism of these repressive features and = focus on=C2=A0 corruption as its core characteristic in your attempt to ide= ntify Trump as a "patrimonial Bonapartist".=C2=A0 However, the Trump admini= stration is not unique; it is simply a more extreme and public expression o= f the more circumspect favouritism bestowed on friends and family members, = wealthy donors, and corporate lobbyists by all manner of bourgeois democrat= ic governments. Here again is the relevant passage from Marx's Eighteenth Brumaire about Bo= naparte's use of a fighting force outside the state: The French bourgeoisie balked at the domination of the working proletariat;= it has brought the lumpen proletariat to domination, with the Chief of the= Society of December 10 at the head. The bourgeoisie kept France in breathl= ess fear of the future terrors of red anarchy =E2=80=93 Bonaparte discounte= d this future for it when, on December 4, he had the eminent bourgeois of t= he Boulevard Montmartre and the Boulevard des Italiens shot down at their w= indows by the drunken army of law and order. The bourgeoisie apotheosized t= he sword; the sword rules it. It destroyed the revolutionary press; its own= press is destroyed. It placed popular meetings under police surveillance; = its salons are placed under police supervision. It disbanded the democratic= National Guard, its own National Guard is disbanded. It imposed a state of= siege; a state of siege is imposed upon it. It supplanted the juries by mi= litary commissions; its juries are supplanted by military commissions. It s= ubjected public education to the sway of the priests; the priests subject i= t to their own education. It jailed people without trial, it is being jaile= d without trial. It suppressed every stirring in society by means of state = power; every stirring in its society is suppressed by means of state power. -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#42747): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/42747 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/120549500/6024700 -=3D-=3D- POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. #4 Do not exceed five posts a day. -=3D-=3D- Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/10173629/6024700/1441833971= /xyzzy [[email protected]] -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- --lNkeZTb8NxAF5M2omWoN Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div>On Sun, Aug 2, 2026 at 08:53 PM, Anthony Teso wrote:</div> <div> <blockquote>Marv’s strongest point is that we still use the term "Bon= apartism" only because Marx did not live long enough to describe modern fas= cism. But that idea needs a real argument, not just a mention. What makes f= ascism different is not just its extremism, but how it creates a fighting f= orce outside the state—a mobilized petty-bourgeois group that is orga= nized separately and then brought into the state, destroying the workers&rs= quo; movement first.</blockquote> Hi Tony. I believe I previously drew your attention to Bonaparte's reliance= on a fighting force outside the state to intimidate and suppress the worke= rs and bourgeois democrats in the wake of their 1848 revolution. His 1851 c= oup d'etat, his unleashing of the lumpenproletarian Society of December 10 = , his assumption of dictatorial powers as Emperor, and his suppression of a= ll independent institutions and democratic rights associated with bourgeois= democracy was a striking foreshadowing of fascism, not of the Trump admini= stration. </div> <div> </div> <div>As I noted earlier, you strip Bonapartism of these repressive features= and focus on corruption as its core characteristic in your attempt t= o identify Trump as a "patrimonial Bonapartist". However, the Trump a= dministration is not unique; it is simply a more extreme and public express= ion of the more circumspect favouritism bestowed on friends and family memb= ers, wealthy donors, and corporate lobbyists by all manner of bourgeois dem= ocratic governments.</div> <div> </div> <div>Here again is the relevant passage from Marx's Eighteenth Brumaire abo= ut Bonaparte's use of a fighting force outside the state: </div> <div> </div> <div><em>The French bourgeoisie balked at the domination of the working pro= letariat; it has brought the lumpen proletariat to domination, with the Chi= ef of the Society of December 10 at the head. The bourgeoisie kept France i= n breathless fear of the future terrors of red anarchy – Bonaparte di= scounted this future for it when, on December 4, he had the eminent bourgeo= is of the Boulevard Montmartre and the Boulevard des Italiens shot down at = their windows by the drunken army of law and order. The bourgeoisie apotheo= sized the sword; the sword rules it. It destroyed the revolutionary press; = its own press is destroyed. It placed popular meetings under police surveil= lance; its salons are placed under police supervision. It disbanded the dem= ocratic National Guard, its own National Guard is disbanded. It imposed a s= tate of siege; a state of siege is imposed upon it. It supplanted the jurie= s by military commissions; its juries are supplanted by military commission= s. It subjected public education to the sway of the priests; the priests su= bject it to their own education. It jailed people without trial, it is bein= g jailed without trial. It suppressed every stirring in society by means of= state power; every stirring in its society is suppressed by means of state= power.</em></div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> <hr> Groups.io Links:<p> =20 You receive all messages sent to this group. =20 =20 <p> <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/42747">Vi= ew/Reply Online (#42747)</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DRe:%20Re= %3A%20%5Bmarxmail%5D%20Trump%20organizing%20legal%20version%20of%20January%= 206th">Reply to Group</a> =20 | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DPri= vate:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bmarxmail%5D%20Trump%20organizing%20legal%20version= %20of%20January%206th">Reply to Sender</a> =20 | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/mt/120549500/6024700">Mute= This Topic</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/marxmail/post">New Topic</a> <br> <hr style=3D"width:25%;margin-right:100%">POSTING RULES & NOTES<br /> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.<br /> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.<br /> #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.<br /> #4 Do not exceed five posts a day.<hr style=3D"width:25%;margin-right:100%"= > <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/marxmail/editsub/6024700">Your Subscription<= /a> | <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Contact Group Owner</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/10173629/6024700/1441833971/x= yzzy">Unsubscribe</a> [[email protected]]<br> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> --lNkeZTb8NxAF5M2omWoN--