Re: [ox-en] Website (was: Politics and Oekonux)

[Converted from multipart/alternative]

[1 text/plain]
Sure thing, but what I'm arguing is that it is precisely those people who 
a) don't know about P2P at all or,
b) are not aware of the political implications of P2P,
that it would be great to reach out to.
In any case, I don't think the "theory" is that complicated. Use value vs. exchange value, free vs. proprietary etc. What is needed are strategies to extend this in practice, and that can only happen when more and more people become involved in more and more ways.
cheers,
mathieu
----- Original Message -----
From: marc fawzi <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 6:26 pm
Subject: Re: [ox-en] Website (was: Politics and Oekonux)
To: [email protected]

> People, especially those with inclination and bias toward
> participatory, peer to peer practices, want participation in drafting
> the message, not a theory to be handed to them.
> 
> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 1:17 AM, Mathieu O'Neil
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > [Converted from multipart/alternative]
> >
> > [1 text/plain]
> > Hi Stefan
> >
> >
> > From my perspective, the purpose would be to broaden the 
> number of people who are interested and (even more so) active in 
> peer production. I think this would be aided by the development 
> of coherent theories. So I dont see these goals as incompatible, 
> as long as the theory-building does not prevent the diffusion of 
> the message.
> >
> >
> > Re. audience, that is a really good point. I was thinking 
> about that very point. There are obviously really different 
> groups. I think we can safely say that theorists of peer 
> production would be aware of peer production. Riffing on what 
> you said before, I would distinguish:
> > - people who like P2P music etc (pirate party voters)
> > - hackers, engineers who are not political
> > - left political people who have never heard of peer 
> production (believe me, there are still a lot)
> > - politicians, social movement people, etc etc
> >
> >
> > Should we tailor a different message for each constituency? I 
> don't think so. If the message is coherent, explains the 
> capitalist world and how peer production is affecting the world 
> (including being recuperated / coopted to sell other stuff, lets 
> not be blind) and gives practical ideas about extending peer 
> production, then all of the above should find something to 
> connect to. If the message is appealing, and presented in a good 
> way, it will find an audience. What we have to be careful about 
> is relying too heavily on jargon, catchphrases, 
> excommunications, all the usual groupuscule stuff where allies 
> end up tearing each other apart over proper definitions. Also we 
> should try to remember that people have lives, kids who they 
> want to succeed or at least not have a worse life than them, 
> parents to look after...
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Stefan Meretz <stefan-/[email protected]>
> > Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 6:55 am
> > Subject: [ox-en] Website (was: Politics and Oekonux)
> > To: [email protected]
> >
> >> Hi Mathieu and all,
> >>
> >> I started a new thread (for those using threaded views in their
> >> mail
> >> clients), leaving your post regarding a new ox website below.
> >>
> >> I am interested in having a better ox website.
> >>
> >> Before starting with the question of purpose I like to ask what
> >> the main
> >> goal of an oekonux website is and who is to be addressed. If
> >> goal and
> >> target group is clear, then purpose or functions of a website
> >> can be
> >> better discussed IMHO.
> >>
> >> I am sure, that goal and target group are far from being evident.
> >>
> >> Goal, is it to
> >> - inform about peer production?
> >> - foster debates around pp?
> >> - collect theories of pp?
> >> - campaining for more members?
> >> - influence politics?
> >> - evaluate new developments?
> >> - doing research on questions around pp?
> >> - develop an "oekonux theory"?
> >>
> >> Target Group, is it
> >> - general audience?
> >> - activists of free/open peer projects?
> >> - theorists of peer production?
> >> - people being interested in emancipatory movements?
> >> - politicians?
> >> - other movements?
> >>
> >> These are only ideas hopefully provoking your ideas. I don't
> >> know, if
> >> this can work in a mailinglist discussion.
> >>
> >> If the questions about goal and target group are more or less
> >> clear,
> >> then it is easier to look at the following aspects like purpose,
> >> functions, content, technical tools, design, access etc.
> >>
> >> StefanMn already wrote down some technical aspects:
> >> http://en.wiki.oekonux.org/Oekonux/Project/WebSite/Requirements
> >>
> >> And below we have Mathieu's ideas about content and purpose.
> >>
> >> Ciao,
> >> Stefan
> >>
> >> On 2009-05-11 15:55, Mathieu O'Neil wrote:
> >> > What purpose should the website have?
> >> >
> >> > - Should it be an archive of texts (like now)? In my view there
> >> > should of course be an archival section, but as Franz 
> argued a while
> >> > back it should not be a comprehensive archive, this already 
> exists>> > (P2P…).
> >> >
> >> > - Should it be a site for spirited discussion between highly
> >> involved> people about the merits of this or that aspect of P2P
> >> economics (or
> >> > whatever you want to call it)? No, this is the function of the
> >> > mailing list.
> >> >
> >> > I think the website should have these main functions:
> >> >
> >> > (a) it should articulate clearly how peer production is a 
> germ form
> >> > for a society without exchange - short texts, slogans, etc
> >> >
> >> > (b) it should have some longer theories to back up (a): 
> this already
> >> > exists
> >> >
> >> > (c) it should provide concrete examples of how peer 
> production is
> >> > working now (free software and hardware)
> >> >
> >> > (d) it should provide concrete examples of how peer 
> production might
> >> > be applied to other sectors. This is a key point. What can be
> >> done to
> >> > extend peer production?
> >> >
> >> > (e) finally, it should offer some means of dialogue between
> >> the ox
> >> > community and others
> >> >
> >> > Concretely:
> >> >
> >> > (a) These definitions should be written collaboratively by 
> whoever>> > wants to lend a hand and then submitted to the list 
> within a
> >> > reasonable time frame so that the process does not drag on 
> forever>> >
> >> > (b) at this stage it is not cost-effective to redo everything
> >> so I am
> >> > thinking we can have links to the old website for particularly
> >> > interesting texts
> >> >
> >> > (c) pretty obvious, no need to dwell on it – a page of links
> >> would do
> >> >
> >> > (d) I think there needs to be a focused effort by the
> >> community to
> >> > come up with short, sharp summaries of how peer production 
> can start
> >> > being applied right now to new areas. For example, there has
> >> been a
> >> > discussion on p2p and ox lists about education. But without going
> >> > into details about how this would work in a future where 
> everything>> > is free, how could peer production be used _right 
> now_ in the
> >> > education sector?
> >> >
> >> > (e) interactivity will help to attract people.  What I an
> >> suggesting> is that people with a strong interest in peer
> >> production (basically
> >> > anyone on the lists, though obviously people like Christian and
> >> > Michel for example (who have big websites) or Smari or
> >> whomever would
> >> > agree to debate all comers on an open wiki. This could be 
> restricted>> > to certain days (once or twice a week) during a 
> month. We would
> >> > "advertise" this widely over the net – Oekonux monthly / ?
> >> /quarterly> dialogues or whatever. We could publish a summary
> >> after each one.
> >> >
> >> > I am happy to help coordinate within reason but (a) (d) and
> >> (e) rely
> >> > on community input. If no-one speaks up, I will let it 
> slide – its
> >> > not like I don’t have enough to do already…
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Start here: www.meretz.de
> >>
> >> _________________________________
> >> Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
> >> Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
> >> Contact: [email protected]
> >
> > ****
> > Dr Mathieu O'Neil
> > Adjunct Research Fellow
> > Australian Demographic and Social Research Institute
> > College of Arts and Social Science
> > The Australian National University
> >
> > E-mail: [email protected]
> > Tel.: (61 02) 61 25 38 00
> > Web: http://adsri.anu.edu.au/people/visitors/mathieu.php
> > Mail: Coombs Building, 9
> > Canberra, ACT 0200 - AUSTRALIA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [2 text/html]
> > _________________________________
> > Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
> > Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
> > Contact: [email protected]
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Marc Fawzi
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
> _________________________________
> Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
> Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
> Contact: [email protected]

****
Dr Mathieu O'Neil
Adjunct Research Fellow
Australian Demographic and Social Research Institute
College of Arts and Social Science
The Australian National University

E-mail: [email protected]
Tel.: (61 02) 61 25 38 00
Web: http://adsri.anu.edu.au/people/visitors/mathieu.php
Mail: Coombs Building, 9
Canberra, ACT 0200 - AUSTRALIA





[2 text/html]
_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: [email protected]