Re: [dinosaur] *Heracles inexpectatus*, giant parrot from the Miocene of NZ
Ronald ORENSTEIN <[email protected]> Thu, 8 Aug 2019 15:34:17 +0800
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--5d4bd08b_7545e146_5df Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I note your point about Strigopids, but I still think something more like a supersized version of a Kea or Kaka beak, perhaps with a massive hook that could be used in digging, would be more likely. Again, the trend to larger bills with increased size is widespread in parrots; you can see it within genera such as Psittacula and Tanygnathus. We need more fossils! Ronald Orenstein 1825 Shady Creek Court Mississauga, ON L5L 3W2 Canada ronorenstein.blogspot.com On Aug 8, 2019, 1:50 PM +0800, Tim Williams <[email protected]>, wrote: > Ronald Orenstein <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Is anyone but me irritated by the temptation to restore a fossil based on a few fragments? > > The press articles need an eye-catching illustration. A pair of legs > just wouldn't do. ;-) > > > > I confess I do not like the restoration of this parrot being used in press articles. Every large parrot of which I am aware, both living and extinct, has a proportionately much larger and more massive bill than do smaller parrots, even close > > relatives (think Palm Cockatoo, Hyacinth Macaw, the extinct Lophopsittacus). Kakapos are admittedly something of an exception, but aside from that this illustration shows the reverse compared to other Strigopid parrots (Kea, Kaka). I > > suspect that a giant parrot would have had a beak that could have taken your arm off. > > As you note, the flightless kakapo (_Strigops habroptilus_) is > exceptional in this regard. The kakapo is the largest/heaviest extant > parrot, but compared to the kea (_Nestor notabilis_), the kakapo > actually has a relatively smaller skull and beak. (This is based on > Livezey, 1992. J. Morph. 213:105-145.) _Heracles inexpectatus_ was > estimated to be around double the mass of the kakapo, but possibly > more closely related to _Nestor_ spp. (based on Worthy et al.). So > strigopoids may not conform to the trend of relatively larger heads > and beaks with increased body size/mass. Overall proportions > (especially regarding the head and beak) may be more likely influenced > by diet. The examples you note - palm cockatoo, hyacinth macaw, > broad-billed parrot - all favor(ed) tough nuts and seeds. --5d4bd08b_7545e146_5df Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline <html xmlns=3D=22http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml=22> <head> <title></title> </head> <body> <div name=3D=22messageBodySection=22><font face=3D=22Helvetica, sans-seri= f=22>I note your point about Strigopids, but I still think something more= like a supersized version of a Kea or Kaka beak, perhaps with a massive = hook that could be used in digging, would be more likely. Again, the tren= d to larger bills with increased size is widespread in parrots; you can s= ee it within genera such as Psittacula and Tanygnathus.&=23160;</font> <div dir=3D=22auto=22><font face=3D=22Helvetica, sans-serif=22><br /></fo= nt></div> <div dir=3D=22auto=22><font face=3D=22Helvetica, sans-serif=22>We need mo= re fossils=21</font></div> </div> <div name=3D=22messageSignatureSection=22><br /> <div dir=3D=22auto=22>Ronald Orenstein 1825 Shady Creek Court Mississauga= , ON L5L 3W2 Canada ronorenstein.blogspot.com</div> </div> <div name=3D=22messageReplySection=22>On Aug 8, 2019, 1:50 PM +0800, Tim = Williams <tijawi=40gmail.com>, wrote:<br /> <blockquote type=3D=22cite=22 class=3D=22spark=5Fquote=22 style=3D=22marg= in: 5px 5px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: thin solid =231abc9c;=22>Ro= nald Orenstein <ron.orenstein=40rogers.com> wrote:<br /> <br /> <blockquote type=3D=22cite=22 class=3D=22spark=5Fquote=22 style=3D=22marg= in: 5px 5px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: thin solid =23e67e22;=22>Is= anyone but me irritated by the temptation to restore a fossil based on a= few fragments=3F<br /></blockquote> <br /> The press articles need an eye-catching illustration. A pair of legs<br /= > just wouldn't do. ;-)<br /> <br /> <br /> <blockquote type=3D=22cite=22 class=3D=22spark=5Fquote=22 style=3D=22marg= in: 5px 5px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: thin solid =23e67e22;=22>I = confess I do not like the restoration of this parrot being used in press = articles. Every large parrot of which I am aware, both living and extinct= , has a proportionately much larger and more massive bill than do smaller= parrots, even close<br /> relatives (think Palm Cockatoo, Hyacinth Macaw, the extinct Lophopsittacu= s). Kakapos are admittedly something of an exception, but aside from that= this illustration shows the reverse compared to other Strigopid parrots = (Kea, Kaka). I<br /> suspect that a giant parrot would have had a beak that could have taken y= our arm off.<br /></blockquote> <br /> As you note, the flightless kakapo (=5FStrigops habroptilus=5F) is<br /> exceptional in this regard. The kakapo is the largest/heaviest extant<br = /> parrot, but compared to the kea (=5FNestor notabilis=5F), the kakapo<br /= > actually has a relatively smaller skull and beak. (This is based on<br />= Livezey, 1992. J. Morph. 213:105-145.) =5FHeracles inexpectatus=5F was<br= /> estimated to be around double the mass of the kakapo, but possibly<br /> more closely related to =5FNestor=5F spp. (based on Worthy et al.). So<br= /> strigopoids may not conform to the trend of relatively larger heads<br />= and beaks with increased body size/mass. Overall proportions<br /> (especially regarding the head and beak) may be more likely influenced<br= /> by diet. The examples you note - palm cockatoo, hyacinth macaw,<br /> broad-billed parrot - all favor(ed) tough nuts and seeds.<br /></blockquo= te> </div> </body> </html> --5d4bd08b_7545e146_5df--