Re: The two lo'es (was: essentials of a gadri system)

xod:
> On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, And Rosta wrote:
>
> > John:
> > > Invent Yourself scripsit:
> > >
> > > > > Rather, CLL lo'e is about *characteristic* properties. It is
> > characteristic
> > > > > of lions to live in Africa, to have short intestines, and to eat
> > antelope.
> > > >
> > > > Ideal? Prototypical? Definitional? Can you give us an algorithm for
> > > > deriving the "characteristic instance"? Otherwise, I don't know how
to
> > > > distinguish it from a stereotype but for the potentially offensive
> > quality
> > > > of the latter.
> > >
> > > le'e stereotypes are subjective (not necessarily offensive); lo'e
> > archetypes
> > > are objective (meaning that all, or all reasonable persons, agree on
them;
> > > "it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent").
> >
> > Although I am happy with CLL-lo'e as a minor & peripheral member of the
> > gadri system, I believe CLL-le'e is downright broken. That is, given the
> > meaning of e-gadri and the meaning of CLL-lo'e, there is no way that
> > le'e can, without inconsistency, have the meaning that CLL ascribes to
> > it. Rather, {le'e nanmu cu broda} must make a generalization about the
> > members of le'i nanmu, rather than a statement about the speaker's
> > stereotype of nanmu.
>
> This is the logical conclusion of your belief that an algorithm is
> nonessential for lo'e'e!

No, my conclusions about what le'e must mean have nothing to do with how
the typicality of lo'e is defined. Rather, I argue that if lo'e makes
typicality claims about the membership of lo'i broda, then le'e makes
typicality claims about the membership of le'i broda.

> I am willing to accept the Wide Survey definition
> which John agreed to.
>
> le'i is bounded by the nanmu which the speaker has in mind.

Just so.

> The le'i nanmu for deriving le'e namu might differ from the le'i nanmu
> used to determine if lo broda is le nanmu.

??? Sorry. I don't understand what you're saying.

--And.