Re: The two lo'es (was: essentials of a gadri system)

On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, And Rosta wrote:

> xod:
> > On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, And Rosta wrote:
> >
> > > John:
> > > > Invent Yourself scripsit:
> > > >
> > > > > > Rather, CLL lo'e is about *characteristic* properties. It is
> > > characteristic
> > > > > > of lions to live in Africa, to have short intestines, and to eat
> > > antelope.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ideal? Prototypical? Definitional? Can you give us an algorithm for
> > > > > deriving the "characteristic instance"? Otherwise, I don't know how
> to
> > > > > distinguish it from a stereotype but for the potentially offensive
> > > quality
> > > > > of the latter.
> > > >
> > > > le'e stereotypes are subjective (not necessarily offensive); lo'e
> > > archetypes
> > > > are objective (meaning that all, or all reasonable persons, agree on
> them;
> > > > "it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent").
> > >
> > > Although I am happy with CLL-lo'e as a minor & peripheral member of the
> > > gadri system, I believe CLL-le'e is downright broken. That is, given the
> > > meaning of e-gadri and the meaning of CLL-lo'e, there is no way that
> > > le'e can, without inconsistency, have the meaning that CLL ascribes to
> > > it. Rather, {le'e nanmu cu broda} must make a generalization about the
> > > members of le'i nanmu, rather than a statement about the speaker's
> > > stereotype of nanmu.
> >
> > This is the logical conclusion of your belief that an algorithm is
> > nonessential for lo'e'e!
>
> No, my conclusions about what le'e must mean have nothing to do with how
> the typicality of lo'e is defined. Rather, I argue that if lo'e makes
> typicality claims about the membership of lo'i broda, then le'e makes
> typicality claims about the membership of le'i broda.
>
> > I am willing to accept the Wide Survey definition
> > which John agreed to.
> >
> > le'i is bounded by the nanmu which the speaker has in mind.
>
> Just so.
>
> > The le'i nanmu for deriving le'e namu might differ from the le'i nanmu
> > used to determine if lo broda is le nanmu.
>
> ??? Sorry. I don't understand what you're saying.



I was trying to prevent you from back-deducing that le nanmu is forever
restricted to the nanmu that the speaker thinks is stereotypical.




-- 
The Pentagon group believed it had a visionary strategy that would
transform Iraq into an ally of Israel, remove a potential threat to the
Persian Gulf oil trade and encircle Iran with U.S. friends and allies...