Re: Multiverse Moralityt
"hibbsa" <hibbsa-/[email protected]> Sat, 31 Aug 2013 17:02:55 -0000
| Newsgroups | gmane.science.physics.fabric-of-reality |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--evhCb8sax5pzdFn6hHyHuqBl0yibDdw5fbk4nU0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In [email protected], Gary Oberbrunner <garyo@...> wrot= e: > > On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 12:10 AM, hibbsa <hibbsa@...> wrote: >=20 > > ** > > > > Gary - MWI is not defined with a set of equations that I know of...do y= ou > > have a link? > > >=20 > Sorry, you asked for a link. Here's a nice bit from the Wikipedia articl= e > on the Schroedinger Wave Equation: >=20 > The Schr=F6dinger equation provides a way to calculate the possible wave > functions of a system and how they dynamically change in time. However, t= he > Schr=F6dinger equation does not directly say *what*, exactly, the wave > function is. Interpretations of quantum > mechanics<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantum_mechani= cs> > address > questions such as what the relation is between the wave function, the > underlying reality, and the results of experimental measurements. > An important aspect is the relationship between the Schr=F6dinger equatio= n and > wavefunction collapse <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wavefunction_collaps= e>. > In the oldest Copenhagen > interpretation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_interpretation>, > particles follow the Schr=F6dinger equation *except* during wavefunction > collapse, during which they behave entirely differently. The advent of qu= antum > decoherence theory <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_decoherence> all= owed > alternative approaches (such as theEverett many-worlds > interpretation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everett_many-worlds_interpret= ation> > and consistent histories<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistent_histori= es>), > wherein the Schr=F6dinger equation is *always* satisfied, and wavefunctio= n > collapse should be explained as a consequence of the Schr=F6dinger equati= on. >=20 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger_equation >=20 > I also liked this quote from the same article: >=20 > "Where did we get that (equation) from? Nowhere. It is not possible to > derive it from anything you know. It came out of the mind of Schr=F6dinge= r." >=20 > =97Richard Feynman[25]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger_equa= tion#cite_note-25> >=20 > --=20 > Gary >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Gary - I know MWI People are adamant that whatever belongs to QM belongs to= them also. But I don't personally agree with that. Theories earn their rig= our, and QM earned it, while MWI never has.=20 The SWE doesn't require the MWI, and the addition of MWI adds no new value = to the equation. The equation doesn't do something that it didn't do before= .=20 Certainly MWI can define itself as SWE, just as an object flying around Ven= us might reasonably define itself in terms of Newton's gravitational equati= ons.=20 But QM came out of a hard scientific progression. MWI is one of the interpr= etations. QM is a set of equations. It's probably the most highly respected= work in science of all time. MWI isn't even on the same planet as tht sort= of accomplishment.=20 I honestly find it appalling how MWI people try to beef MWI by telling folk= its mathematical and so on. It's really misleureading. Young people are go= ing to be left with and enduring impression of MWI thst isn't true. MWI nee= ds to earn its stripes. If you want MWI to be a set of equations, work for = it. Earn it :o) --evhCb8sax5pzdFn6hHyHuqBl0yibDdw5fbk4nU0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/htm= l4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> <body style=3D"background-color: #fff;"> <span style=3D"display:none"> </span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"position:relative;"> <div id=3D"ygrp-msg" style=3D"z-index: 1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-text" > =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 <p><br> <br> --- In <a href=3D"mailto:Fabric-of-Reality%40yahoogroups.com">Fabric-of-Rea= [email protected]</a>, Gary Oberbrunner <garyo@...> wrote:<br> ><br> > On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 12:10 AM, hibbsa <hibbsa@...> wrote:<br> > <br> > > **<br> > ><br> > > Gary - MWI is not defined with a set of equations that I know of.= ..do you<br> > > have a link?<br> > ><br> > <br> > Sorry, you asked for a link. Here's a nice bit from the Wikipedia= article<br> > on the Schroedinger Wave Equation:<br> > <br> > The Schr=F6dinger equation provides a way to calculate the possible wa= ve<br> > functions of a system and how they dynamically change in time. However= , the<br> > Schr=F6dinger equation does not directly say *what*, exactly, the wave= <br> > function is. Interpretations of quantum<br> > mechanics<<a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_o= f_quantum_mechanics">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantu= m_mechanics</a>><br> > address<br> > questions such as what the relation is between the wave function, the<= br> > underlying reality, and the results of experimental measurements.<br> > An important aspect is the relationship between the Schr=F6dinger equa= tion and<br> > wavefunction collapse <<a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wav= efunction_collapse">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wavefunction_collapse</a>&= gt;.<br> > In the oldest Copenhagen<br> > interpretation<<a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_i= nterpretation">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_interpretation</a>&g= t;,<br> > particles follow the Schr=F6dinger equation *except* during wavefuncti= on<br> > collapse, during which they behave entirely differently. The advent of= quantum<br> > decoherence theory <<a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum= _decoherence">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_decoherence</a>> allo= wed<br> > alternative approaches (such as theEverett many-worlds<br> > interpretation<<a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everett_many= -worlds_interpretation">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everett_many-worlds_in= terpretation</a>><br> > and consistent histories<<a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C= onsistent_histories">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistent_histories</a>&= gt;),<br> > wherein the Schr=F6dinger equation is *always* satisfied, and wavefunc= tion<br> > collapse should be explained as a consequence of the Schr=F6dinger equ= ation.<br> > <br> > <a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger_equation">htt= p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger_equation</a><br> > <br> > I also liked this quote from the same article:<br> > <br> > "Where did we get that (equation) from? Nowhere. It is not possib= le to<br> > derive it from anything you know. It came out of the mind of Schr=F6di= nger."<br> > <br> > =97Richard Feynman[25]<<a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr= %C3%B6dinger_equation#cite_note-25">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6= dinger_equation#cite_note-25</a>><br> > <br> > -- <br> > Gary<br> > <br> > <br> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<br> ><br> <br> Gary - I know MWI People are adamant that whatever belongs to QM belongs to= them also. But I don't personally agree with that. Theories earn their= rigour, and QM earned it, while MWI never has. <br> <br> The SWE doesn't require the MWI, and the addition of MWI adds no new va= lue to the equation. The equation doesn't do something that it didn'= ;t do before. <br> <br> Certainly MWI can define itself as SWE, just as an object flying around Ven= us might reasonably define itself in terms of Newton's gravitational eq= uations. <br> <br> But QM came out of a hard scientific progression. MWI is one of the interpr= etations. QM is a set of equations. It's probably the most highly respe= cted work in science of all time. MWI isn't even on the same planet as = tht sort of accomplishment. <br> <br> I honestly find it appalling how MWI people try to beef MWI by telling folk= its mathematical and so on. It's really misleureading. Young people ar= e going to be left with and enduring impression of MWI thst isn't true.= MWI needs to earn its stripes. If you want MWI to be a set of equations, w= ork for it. Earn it :o)<br> <br> </p> </div> =20=20=20=20=20 <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--> <div style=3D"color: #fff; height: 0;">__._,_.___</div> =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20 =20=20 <table cellspacing=3D4px style=3D"margin-top: 20px; margin-bottom: 10px= ;"> <tbody> <tr> <td style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; font-weight: bo= ld; padding: 7px 5px 5px; color: #FFF; background-color: #F2F2F2; border: 1= px solid #EAEAEA " > <a style=3D"text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD= " href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/post;_ylc=3DX3oDM= TJxcGczbmI0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4ODg2MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BG1z= Z0lkAzI1NTg1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM3Nzk3MzY0Mw--?act=3Dreply&me= ssageNum=3D25585">Reply via web post</a> </td> <td style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5p= x 5px; color: #FFF; background-color: #F2F2F2; border: 1px solid #EAEAEA; "= > <a href=3D"mailto:hibbsa-/[email protected]?subject=3DRe%3A%20Multiverse= %20Moralityt" style=3D"text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD;"> Reply to sender </a>=20 </td> <td style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5p= x 5px; color: #FFF; background-color: #F2F2F2; border: 1px solid #EAEAEA; "= > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DR= e%3A%20Multiverse%20Moralityt" style=3D"text-decoration: none; color: #2D50= FD"> Reply to group </a>=20 </td> <td style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5p= x 5px; color: #FFF; background-color: #F2F2F2; border: 1px solid #EAEAEA; "= > <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/post= ;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJlcXQ3YnJjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4ODg2MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA= 1MDIwNTg1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM3Nzk3MzY0Mw--" style=3D"text-de= coration: none; color: #2D50FD">Start a New Topic</a> </td> <td style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5p= x 5px; color: #2D50FD; background-color: #F2F2F2; border: 1px solid #EAEAEA= ; " > <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric= -of-Reality/message/25476;_ylc=3DX3oDMTM2Ym5vY3JvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAz= E4ODg2MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BG1zZ0lkAzI1NTg1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc= 3RpbWUDMTM3Nzk3MzY0MwR0cGNJZAMyNTQ3Ng--" style=3D"text-decoration: none; co= lor: #2D50FD;">Messages in this topic</a> (28) </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 <!------- Start Nav Bar ------> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id=3D"ygrp-vital" style=3D"background-color: #f2f2f2; font-family: Ver= dana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;"> <span id=3D"vithd" style=3D"font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-tran= sform: uppercase; ">Recent Activity:</span> <ul style=3D"list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: inl= ine;"> <li style=3D"border-right: 1px solid #000; font-weight: 700; di= splay: inline; padding: 0 5px; margin-left: 0;"> <span class=3D"cat"><a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-o= f-Reality/members;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJmYWhkOWVyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4ODg2MD= AEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzNzc5NzM2NDM-?= o=3D6" style=3D"text-decoration: none;">New Members</a></span> <span class=3D"ct" style=3D"color: #ff7900;">1</span> </li> </ul> =20=20=20=20 <div style=3D"clear: both; padding-top: 2px; color: #1e66ae;"> <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality;_ylc=3DX3oDM= TJlOXYwM2pzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4ODg2MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BHNl= YwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTM3Nzk3MzY0Mw--" style=3D"text-decoration: non= e;">Visit Your Group</a> </div> </div> =20=20 <div id=3D"ft" style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 11px; margin-top: 5p= x; padding: 0 2px 0 0; clear: both;"> <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJkc21ibG5hBF9TAzk3MzU5Nz= E0BGdycElkAzE4ODg2MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZ= QMxMzc3OTczNjQz" style=3D"float: left;"><img src=3D"http://l.yimg.com/a/i/u= s/yg/logo/us.gif" height=3D"15" width=3D"137" alt=3D"Yahoo! 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