Re: Target: Tegmark Mathematical Universe
smitra-RSh1/+X/PmFmR6Xm/[email protected] Sun, 23 Mar 2014 03:23:43 +0100
| Newsgroups | gmane.science.physics.fabric-of-reality |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--V7BrbxVJ0UE917weu6pSRj3hrjI2unylh8x2UHY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Citeren Lee Corbin <[email protected]>: > Smitra writes > >> [Lee wro= te] >> > =E2=80=9Cequivalent=E2=80=9D to an actual small cat undergoing >> = > terrible suffering. Then on moral grounds, >> > wouldn=E2=80=99t we objec= t to someone using his >> > computer o run that program? In particular, >> = > let=E2=80=99s say that the program executes 10 million >> > instructions = per second, and that, say, it takes >> > 10 seconds to run the program. (Th= us the >> > software kitten lives at 1/5 the rate we do.) > >> The laws of = physics put some limits on this thought >> experiments. The information use= d in running the >> simulation of the kitten has to come from somewhere. >>= If we take this into account, the Mathematical >> Multiverse will become a= lot more plausible. > > There are many confusing aspects to such > thought= experiments, let me be the first to > admit. For now, I suggest we leave M= WI out > of it, until other aspects become clearer. > > Do you consider it = *possible* for brain science > to make such tremendous advances in the next= > centuries that uploading a worm, an insect, or > a mammal might occur? >= > If it does become possible, then this question > will become pertinent: = is uploading a pet that > is painfully dying of cancer moral? > > Lee Yes= , this should pose no problems. I would agree that you can have a virtual = pet that is suffering. You can even consider a hypothetical analogue compu= ter that operates using wheels and gears. Even such a machine can feel pai= n. Or you could imagine an ants nest where the ants implement a complica= ted program. This system can in principle also feel pain even though none = of the ants may feel anything. Now, we must also be prepared to question a= ny notions of morality we have. If all possible universes exist anyway the= n the suffering kitten should also exist even if we don't simulate it. The= only thing that changes due to the simulation is that we can see what is = going on in that universe. Perhaps its better to look at this from the po= int of view of the kitten. The kitten is not necessarily going to find its= elf in a virtual universe where it is being tortured just because we decid= e to run a simulation. It only has a very small probability to find itself= in such a universe, if you a priori accept Tegmark's mathematical multive= rse idea. Saibal --V7BrbxVJ0UE917weu6pSRj3hrjI2unylh8x2UHY Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/htm= l4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> =20 <body style=3D"background-color: #fff;"> <span style=3D"display:none"> </span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"position:relative;"> <div id=3D"ygrp-msg" style=3D"z-index: 1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-text" > =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 <p>Citeren Lee Corbin <[email protected]>:<br> <br> > Smitra writes<br> ><br> >> [Lee wrote]<br> >> > =E2=80=9Cequivalent=E2=80=9D to an actual small cat undergoin= g<br> >> > terrible suffering. Then on moral grounds,<br> >> > wouldn=E2=80=99t we object to someone using his<br> >> > computer o run that program? In particular,<br> >> > let=E2=80=99s say that the program executes 10 million<br> >> > instructions per second, and that, say, it takes<br> >> > 10 seconds to run the program. (Thus the<br> >> > software kitten lives at 1/5 the rate we do.)<br> ><br> >> The laws of physics put some limits on this thought<br> >> experiments. The information used in running the<br> >> simulation of the kitten has to come from somewhere.<br> >> If we take this into account, the Mathematical<br> >> Multiverse will become a lot more plausible.<br> ><br> > There are many confusing aspects to such<br> > thought experiments, let me be the first to<br> > admit. For now, I suggest we leave MWI out<br> > of it, until other aspects become clearer.<br> ><br> > Do you consider it *possible* for brain science<br> > to make such tremendous advances in the next<br> > centuries that uploading a worm, an insect, or<br> > a mammal might occur?<br> ><br> > If it does become possible, then this question<br> > will become pertinent: is uploading a pet that<br> > is painfully dying of cancer moral?<br> ><br> > Lee<br> <br> Yes, this should pose no problems. I would agree that you can have a <br> virtual pet that is suffering. You can even consider a hypothetical <br> analogue computer that operates using wheels and gears. Even such a <br> machine can feel pain. Or you could imagine an ants nest where the <br> ants implement a complicated program. This system can in principle <br> also feel pain even though none of the ants may feel anything.<br> <br> Now, we must also be prepared to question any notions of morality we <br> have. If all possible universes exist anyway then the suffering kitten <br> should also exist even if we don't simulate it. The only thing that <br= > changes due to the simulation is that we can see what is going on in <br> that universe.<br> <br> Perhaps its better to look at this from the point of view of the <br> kitten. The kitten is not necessarily going to find itself in a virtual <br= > universe where it is being tortured just because we decide to run a <br> simulation. It only has a very small probability to find itself in such <br= > a universe, if you a priori accept Tegmark's mathematical multiverse <b= r> idea.<br> <br> Saibal<br> </p> </div> =20=20=20=20=20 <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--> <div style=3D"color: #fff; height: 0;">__._,_.___</div> =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20 =20=20=20=20 <div style=3D"clear:both"> </div> <table cellspacing=3D4px style=3D"margin-top: 20px; margin-bottom: 10px= ;"> <tbody> <tr> <td style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; font-weight: bo= ld; padding: 7px 5px 5px; color: #FFF; background-color: #F2F2F2; border: 1= px solid #EAEAEA " > <a style=3D"text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD= " href=3D"https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Fabric-of-Reality/conversatio= ns/messages/25645;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJxdjVyNDgyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4ODg2MD= AEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BG1zZ0lkAzI1NjQ1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDM= TM5NTY1MjgyMg--?act=3Dreply&messageNum=3D25645">Reply via web post</a> </td> <td style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5p= x 5px; color: #FFF; background-color: #F2F2F2; border: 1px solid #EAEAEA; "= > <a href=3D"mailto:smitra-RSh1/+X/PmFmR6Xm/[email protected]?subject=3DRe%3A%20Target%3A%= 20Tegmark%20Mathematical%20Universe" style=3D"text-decoration: none; color:= #2D50FD;"> Reply to sender </a>=20 </td> <td style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5p= x 5px; color: #FFF; background-color: #F2F2F2; border: 1px solid #EAEAEA; "= > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DR= e%3A%20Target%3A%20Tegmark%20Mathematical%20Universe" style=3D"text-decorat= ion: none; color: #2D50FD"> Reply to group </a>=20 </td> <td style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5p= x 5px; color: #FFF; background-color: #F2F2F2; border: 1px solid #EAEAEA; "= > <a href=3D"https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Fabric-of-Realit= y/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJlMGcycHB2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE= 4ODg2MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM5NTY1Mj= gyMg--" style=3D"text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD">Start a New Topic</= a> </td> <td style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5p= x 5px; color: #2D50FD; background-color: #F2F2F2; border: 1px solid #EAEAEA= ; " > <a href=3D"https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/= Fabric-of-Reality/conversations/topics/25631;_ylc=3DX3oDMTM2ZmFmaTRxBF9TAzk= 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4ODg2MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BG1zZ0lkAzI1NjQ1BHNlYw= NmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM5NTY1MjgyMgR0cGNJZAMyNTYzMQ--" style=3D"text-d= ecoration: none; color: #2D50FD;">Messages in this topic</a> (14) </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 <!------- Start Nav Bar ------> =20 <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id=3D"ygrp-vital" style=3D"background-color: #f2f2f2; font-family: Ver= dana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;"> <span id=3D"vithd" style=3D"font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-transf= orm: uppercase; "><a href=3D"https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Fabric-of-= Reality/info;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJlanE1bGtnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4ODg2MDAEZ3J= wc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTM5NTY1MjgyMg--" styl= e=3D"text-decoration: none;">Visit Your Group</a></span> <ul style=3D"list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: in= line;"> </ul> </div> <div id=3D"ft" style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 11px; margin-top: 5p= x; padding: 0 2px 0 0; clear: both;"> <a href=3D"https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJkYzdrdm03BF9TAzk3Mz= U5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4ODg2MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzd= GltZQMxMzk1NjUyODIy" style=3D"float: left;"><img src=3D"http://l.yimg.com/r= u/static/images/yg/img/email/new_logo/logo-groups-137x15.png" height=3D"15"= width=3D"137" alt=3D"Yahoo! 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