Re: Wormholes have a branching structure
"Sol Ngawi solngawi-/[email protected] [Fabric-of-Reality]" <[email protected]> Sat, 13 Dec 2014 23:57:17 -0800
| Newsgroups | gmane.science.physics.fabric-of-reality |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--Xrn7ZmOpeFhMgGl3UKNeIqf7dSdb1f8aUug4h4u Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Dec 14, 2014, at 11:42 AM, [email protected] [Fabric-of-Reality] <[email protected]> wrote: > Some ways to attack the problem is to challenge assumptions of the day. Just so we're clear, would you describe the problem? My understanding of the problem has changed so just want to make sure we're on the same page. > The observer is the obvious place to start as physics tends to look at subjectivity as something to ignore. But as Descartes described everything objective is determined by subjective experience of the observer. This sounds like you are saying that the objective world depends on our subjective experiences. I think it is independent from them. Agree? It's true that our perspective on the world determines how we see the world. For what it's worth, I don't like Descartes. He was looking for certainty, but we now know nothing is beyond doubt. > As such, physics is devoid of investigation of the nature of the observer beyond defining it as a "clock" . > Two assumptions commonly made about the observer: > 1. The observer is substance based. However, a ti[d]al wave which has consistent structure but no consistent substance has its own "clock" which differs slightly from the water molecules flowing through it. Sounds interesting but I'm not crystal clear on what you're saying. Can you clarify? > 2. The observer is the same observer past, present, future. You cannot experience two time frames directly at once. Can two parts of your body be in different time frames, like when moving through a wormhole into the past/future? > Only through reexperiencing patterns in the present (i.e. memories, videos, etc) can it be referenced at all. So subjectively the past instance of yourself is no more related to the present instance of yourself than you are to a stranger. It is only the relatively same "shape" of structure that makes the two instances of observer act and coordinate. Yes, I agree that past versions of yourself are different people. > The one other assumption to look at is the use of mathmatic operators or verbs within the multiverse you are describing. As an observer within the fabric you are "burning time" within the fabric you are examining. That is any "verb" or mathematical operation that requires time when describing moving in the multivese is suspect. If you step outside time, it is all static. Yes, the multiverse exists forever and all at once. Every space-time slice through the multiverse is eternal. > The moment you put anything in motion you are introducing a new time line which also can be stepped outside to observe. So any movement within the multiverse is an illusion as that can only occur as a blurring of the fabric creating the illusion of passing time and animating the fabric from within Planck's constant area of the space-time multiverse fabric. I didn't understand the part about Planck's Constant but I think I get your point. Basically it's the idea that time flows and things move is an illusion arising from our perspective as observers within the multiverse. OK, how do these points relate to the problem of whether you would survive past/future-directed time travel through the wormhole? ~Sol --Xrn7ZmOpeFhMgGl3UKNeIqf7dSdb1f8aUug4h4u Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> <body style="background-color: #fff;"> <span style="display:none"> </span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="position:relative;"> <div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index: 1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-text" > <p>On Dec 14, 2014, at 11:42 AM, [email protected] [Fabric-of-Reality] <[email protected]> wrote:<br> <br> > Some ways to attack the problem is to challenge assumptions of the day. <br> <br> Just so we're clear, would you describe the problem? My understanding of the problem has changed so just want to make sure we're on the same page. <br> <br> > The observer is the obvious place to start as physics tends to look at subjectivity as something to ignore. But as Descartes described everything objective is determined by subjective experience of the observer. <br> <br> This sounds like you are saying that the objective world depends on our subjective experiences. I think it is independent from them. Agree? It's true that our perspective on the world determines how we see the world. <br> <br> For what it's worth, I don't like Descartes. He was looking for certainty, but we now know nothing is beyond doubt.<br> <br> > As such, physics is devoid of investigation of the nature of the observer beyond defining it as a "clock" . <br> <br> > Two assumptions commonly made about the observer:<br> <br> > 1. The observer is substance based. However, a ti[d]al wave which has consistent structure but no consistent substance has its own "clock" which differs slightly from the water molecules flowing through it.<br> <br> Sounds interesting but I'm not crystal clear on what you're saying. Can you clarify?<br> <br> > 2. The observer is the same observer past, present, future. You cannot experience two time frames directly at once. <br> <br> Can two parts of your body be in different time frames, like when moving through a wormhole into the past/future?<br> <br> > Only through reexperiencing patterns in the present (i.e. memories, videos, etc) can it be referenced at all. So subjectively the past instance of yourself is no more related to the present instance of yourself than you are to a stranger. It is only the relatively same "shape" of structure that makes the two instances of observer act and coordinate.<br> <br> Yes, I agree that past versions of yourself are different people.<br> <br> > The one other assumption to look at is the use of mathmatic operators or verbs within the multiverse you are describing. As an observer within the fabric you are "burning time" within the fabric you are examining. That is any "verb" or mathematical operation that requires time when describing moving in the multivese is suspect. If you step outside time, it is all static. <br> <br> Yes, the multiverse exists forever and all at once. Every space-time slice through the multiverse is eternal.<br> <br> > The moment you put anything in motion you are introducing a new time line which also can be stepped outside to observe. So any movement within the multiverse is an illusion as that can only occur as a blurring of the fabric creating the illusion of passing time and animating the fabric from within Planck's constant area of the space-time multiverse fabric.<br> <br> I didn't understand the part about Planck's Constant but I think I get your point. Basically it's the idea that time flows and things move is an illusion arising from our perspective as observers within the multiverse.<br> <br> OK, how do these points relate to the problem of whether you would survive past/future-directed time travel through the wormhole?<br> <br> ~Sol<br> </p> </div> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--> <div style="color: #fff; height: 0;">__._,_.___</div> <div style="clear:both"> </div> <div id="fromDMARC" style="margin-top: 10px;"> <hr style="height:2px ; border-width:0; color:#E3E3E3; background-color:#E3E3E3;"> Posted by: Sol Ngawi <solngawi-/[email protected]> <hr style="height:2px ; border-width:0; color:#E3E3E3; background-color:#E3E3E3;"> </div> <div style="clear:both"> </div> <table cellspacing=4px style="margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; color: #2D50FD;"> <tbody> <tr> <td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; font-weight: bold; padding: 7px 5px 5px;" > <a style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD" href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Fabric-of-Reality/conversations/messages/25684;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNTkwcWFpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4ODg2MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BG1zZ0lkAzI1Njg0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTQxODU1Mzk5MA--?act=reply&messageNum=25684">Reply via web post</a> </td> <td>•</td> <td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5px 5px;" > <a href="mailto:solngawi-/[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Wormholes%20have%20a%20branching%20structure" style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD;"> Reply to sender </a> </td> <td>•</td> <td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5px 5px;"> <a href="mailto:[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Wormholes%20have%20a%20branching%20structure" style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD"> Reply to group </a> </td> <td>•</td> <td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5px 5px;" > <a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Fabric-of-Reality/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJla3RyMW5oBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4ODg2MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQxODU1Mzk5MA--" style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD">Start a New Topic</a> </td> <td>•</td> <td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5px 5px;color: #2D50FD;" > <a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Fabric-of-Reality/conversations/topics/25681;_ylc=X3oDMTM2ZXQ2NXRxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4ODg2MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BG1zZ0lkAzI1Njg0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQxODU1Mzk5MAR0cGNJZAMyNTY4MQ--" style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD;">Messages in this topic</a> (3) </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <!------- Start Nav Bar ------> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id="ygrp-vital" style="background-color: #f2f2f2; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;"> <span id="vithd" style="font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-transform: uppercase; "><a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Fabric-of-Reality/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbW42MDVkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4ODg2MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQxODU1Mzk5MA--" style="text-decoration: none;">Visit Your Group</a></span> <ul style="list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: inline;"> <li style="border-right: 1px solid #000; font-weight: 700; display: inline; padding: 0 5px; margin-left: 0;"> <span class="cat"><a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Fabric-of-Reality/members/all;_ylc=X3oDMTJmNm8xdmZzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4ODg2MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzE0MTg1NTM5OTA-" style="text-decoration: none;">New Members</a></span> <span class="ct" style="color: #ff7900;">1</span> </li> </ul> </div> <div id="ft" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11px; margin-top: 5px; padding: 0 2px 0 0; clear: both;"> <a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJkNmpuaGgxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4ODg2MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNDE4NTUzOTkw" style="float: left;"><img src="http://l.yimg.com/ru/static/images/yg/img/email/new_logo/logo-groups-137x15.png" height="15" width="137" alt="Yahoo! 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