Re: Ada Lovelace: others & forerunners

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      <p>&gt;---In [email protected], &lt;marchal@...&gt; w=
rote :<br>
<br>
&gt; On 09 Oct 2015, at 23:55, hibbsa@... mailto:hibbsa@...<br>
 [Fabric-of-Reality] wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt;  &gt;---In [email protected] mailto:<br>
[email protected], &lt;marchal@...&gt; wrote :<br>
 <br>
 &gt;&gt;&gt;On 24 Sep 2015, at 13:33, hibbsa@... <br>
 &gt;&gt;&gt;mailto:hibbsa@ mailto:hibbsa@... [Fabric-of-Reality] wrote:<br=
>
 <br>
 &gt;&gt;regarding Ada Lovelace contributions to computing, <br>
 &gt;&gt;David Deutsch tweets https://twitter.com/ https://twitter.com/<br>
 &gt;&gt;DavidDeutschOxf/status/644977353651785730:<br>
 <br>
 <br>
 &gt;&gt;&quot;ProfBrianCox @FryRsquared Fascinating. It convinced <br>
 &gt;&gt;me that I was wrong: Babbage never really got universality. <br>
 &gt;&gt;Lovelace totally did.&quot;<br>
 <br>
 <br>
 &gt;&gt;Hmm... I have a little french book from 1911 by <br>
 &gt;&gt;Jacques Lafitte which gave me indirect evidence<br>
 &gt;&gt; that Babbage did got the &quot;universality&quot; insight<br>
 &gt;&gt; (for &gt;computations). he got it not from his machine(s),<br>
 &gt;&gt; but from the language he invented to describe the<br>
 &gt;&gt; machine, and he realized that such a language is <br>
 &gt;&gt;as powerfull than his machine.<br>
 &gt;&gt; I have evidence that Ada invented programming <br>
 &gt;&gt;and subroutine, but I am not sure she get the<br>
 &gt;&gt; universality I will take a look (when I have more time).<br>
 <br>
&gt; Yes well....having seen the documentary I spent a<br>
 &gt;little time digging out some details (actually all I did <br>
&gt;was visit (the site/blog of) some trusted historians of science). <br>
 &gt;Apparently all Ada Lovelace did was publish a single<br>
 &gt;paper, in which she performed a translation to English <br>
&gt;of a lecture given by or for Babbage. She added &#39;poetic <br>
&gt;annotations&#39; on what one might do with the analytical <br>
&gt;engine. Which was entirely Babbage&#39;s&#39; work. Another<br>
 &gt;point was that not only was it absolute bullshit that <br>
&gt;Lovelace inspired or influenced at all the first computer, <br>
&gt;but that it&#39;s not straight forwarder that the analytical <br>
&gt;machine did. <br>
<br>
&gt;Hi Hibbsa. What you describe is the usual opinion. <br>
&gt;But the book by Laffite expalins that when creating a <br>
&gt;lnague to describe the plan of he machine, Babbage <br>
&gt;eventually realized that the language for the plan <br>
&gt;was as much a discovery than its machine, and that <br>
&gt;he felt frustrated not being able to communicate that <br>
&gt;discovery. It means that he undertood that his language <br>
&gt;was a universal machine too, in (a posteriroi) the <br>
&gt;mathematical sense which he did not intent to make <br>
&gt;precise.  Now, I have not seen that language, but I am<br>
 &gt;open to the idea that Babbage got the &quot;tilt&quot; of the &quot;Tu=
ring <br>
&gt;universality&quot;. About ADA, my reading is that she invented<br>
 &gt;the notion of subroutine, and the practice of programming, <br>
&gt;which demands also some intuiotion of that universality. <br>
&gt;With Babbage feeling about its language, the discovery is<br>
&gt; made more explicit. <br>
&gt; Today we know that some diophantine polynomial relation are Turing uni=
versal. Universality grows &gt;up at the very elementary part of the arithm=
etical reality. <br>
<br>
Hi Bruno, hope you&#39;re well, <br>
Sure, on the face of it there&#39;s some compelling elements there. It&#39;=
s also significant - from my perspective - that Deutsch says he found it co=
nvincing. Because I know how much thinking he does about universality. <br>
Just to clarify, because it isn&#39;t clear whether that last post from me =
was expressing my own view or the view of some historians. Actually I was j=
ust paraphrasing the views I read. But...I do think historians have a lot t=
o input into this sort of thing. <br>
The big question is really whether there is actual causality in the flow of=
 certain historical events. No one would likely doubt that Lovelace anticip=
ated aspects of computing. But the question of whether she changed the line=
 of history is more involved. <br>
The difference is just that any number of people can be said in hindsight t=
o have anticipated. That number is really directly proportional to the deta=
il of history that one is aware. Whereas to be in the line of causality is =
much more constrained. So a much higher accolade. <br>
Best. <br>
 <br>
<br>
Bruno<br>
 <br>
<br>
my comment:<br>
 <br>
 <br>
 Hi DD, I watched it after seeing your tweet, and found it fascinating also=
. I thought you might be interested in the following documentary, which she=
ds light on a forerunner to Ada Lovelace. In terms of universality, that th=
e possibility was being glimpsed (but not realized) is evident.<br>
 <br>
 <br>
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DbLb54FCMt9o https://www.youtube.com/watc=
h?v=3DbLb54FCMt9o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DbLb54FCMt9o https://www=
.youtube.com/watch?v=3DbLb54FCMt9o<br>
 <br>
 <br>
 Another recent documentary about Turing&#39;s Bletchley peer &quot;Gordon =
Welchman&quot; whose contribution to the Collossus and code breaking is reg=
arded as at least equal to Turing himself. Possibly greater.<br>
 <br>
 <br>
 Bletchley Park: Code-breaking&#39;s Forgotten Genius http://www.bbc.co.uk/=
iplayer/episode/b069gxz7/bletchley-park-codebreakings-forgotten-genius http=
://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b069gxz7/bletchley-park-codebreakings-forg=
otten-genius<br>
 <br>
 <br>
 http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b069gxz7/bletchley-park-codebreakings=
-forgotten-genius http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b069gxz7/bletchley-p=
ark-codebreakings-forgotten-genius<br>
 <br>
 Bletchley Park: Code-breaking&#39;s Forgotten Genius http://www.bbc.co.uk/=
iplayer/episode/b069gxz7/bletchley-park-codebreakings-forgotten-genius http=
://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b069gxz7/bletchley-park-codebreakings-forg=
otten-genius A look at Gordon Welchman, a codebreaker crucial to the defeat=
 of the Nazis.<br>
 <br>
 View on www.bbc.co.uk http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b069gxz7/bletch=
ley-park-codebreakings-forgotten-genius http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod=
e/b069gxz7/bletchley-park-codebreakings-forgotten-genius<br>
 Preview by Yahoo <br>
 <br>
 <br>
 Of course, Leibniz was conceptually close to. My candidate for the first r=
eal understanding of universality might be Emil Post, the founders, with Kl=
eene of &quot;recursion theory&quot;.<br>
 <br>
 <br>
 Only one certainty: G=C3=B6del did not got it, and neither Church. &quot;C=
hurch&#39;s thesis&quot; is a label created by Kleene when he understood th=
at the class of partial recursive function is closed for the diagonalizatio=
n procedure, what G=C3=B6del called a &quot;miracle&quot;. G=C3=B6del accep=
ted Church&#39;s thesis only after his reading of Turing, who got it too of=
 course.<br>
 <br>
 <br>
 Bruno<br>
 <br>
 <br>
 http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ http:/=
/iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/<br>
<br>
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/</p>

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