Re: consensus child care"??? / wasAnother Bush Crime against humanity and Gaia

Of course you don't recall blaming me for anything. You don't recall
anything, do you.  I'm defining consensus exactly as you do on your
website, as anyone can see, but you claim I don't know anything about it. 

>what little i
>know of your form of cooperation sounds like some kind of benevolent
>dictator at best to me

You should read what I wrote before slinging wild accusations like that.
In spite of all that "peace" stuff, you don't realize you're showing the
worst kind of hostility to those who simply disagree with you.  And of
course I do my homework, I looked at your personal page.  And I have to
tell you, I am not the lost soul you are, I'm not searching for something I
can't find.  And I don't have a need to surround myself with people who are
such lamebrains they can always come to some consensus. 

Now neither one of us is getting anywhere with this. I have work to do.
Adios.

paul [email protected]
http://medicinehill.net

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 1/31/2005 at 5:35 PM forest wrote:

>on 1/31/05 9:28 AM, Globalcircle at [email protected] wrote:
> 
>> I certainly agree there is too much eco-destructive energies now on
>earth.
>> But no sir, it's not my fault nobody accepts and lives in egalitarian
>> consensus-organized communities.
>
>i do not recall blaming you for anything.....
>
>> It's just a bad idea. Cooperation, yes,
>> community, yes. Those are traditional values civilized societies have
>> always believe in. But individual freedom and family independence within
>> cooperating communities is what people want and have always wanted, not
>> being in some suffocating arrangement where they have to get a
>committee's
>> permission (excuse me, I mean consensus) to piss off the front porch.
>
>it seems you do not understand the type of consensus i am talking about,
>with consensus we do not get permission for anything, we agree, (all of
>us),
>before taking action on whatever the group deems as group social issues or
>projects, etc.......i am all for individual and/or family freedom and
>independence, i simply wish to balance that with consensus
>cooperation....to
>me refined/organized group cooperation is the same as formalized/organized
>group consensus.....there are many styles of consensus to choose from....
> 
>> And no, just because I say obsession with consensus is going nowhere
>> doesn't mean I'm pessimistic about life. I constantly promote the Local
>> Food movement, community self sufficiency, sustainable living, the Old
>> Ways, and spiritual connection to the land. It's all over my websites
and
>> my own lists I run.  And I actually live what I promote.
>
>well, it sounds like you want to be more in control of social neighborhood
>or extended/tribal family things than me....i simply am interested in the
>group mind experience/experiment.....i see consensus as a way to link our
>group minds/spirits/bodies to create more than the sum of it's
>parts.....this imh-bs is a spiritual thing, and if continued and refined
>leads to synchronistic and psychic type phenomena....i have tasted that
>already to some degree, and that keeps me inspired to keep on keepin on
>despite limited support and put downs from folks like you.....what little
i
>know of your form of cooperation sounds like some kind of benevolent
>dictator at best to me.....feel free to choose....imh-bs as we move toward
>higher degrees of self-sufficiency, spiritualism, sustainable living,
etc.,
>at some point we will naturally move toward and evolve our political
social
>structures toward consensus....but, you don't have to believe me bs
(belief
>system), but i can not deny it for sure, based on real experience....
>> 
>> Sorry but "responsible consensus child care"? (from your website)  Are
>you
>> serious?
>
>yes....
>
>> Must not have any of your own.
>
>they are grown up now....me interactions with raising children inspired me
>to consider consensus child care....i want to know what others are doing
>with children if i am involved in some kind of tribal day care or
>homeschooling in intentional community, so would prefer we talk about that
>before starting childcare as neighbors or extended family....i want us all
>to be in agreement about how we treat and interact with the children if we
>are cooperating with day care or cooperative homeschooling off and
>on.....how do you cooperate with neighbors and/or children?????
>
>> "Decisions and actions based on
>> unanimous agreement"?
>
>yes, provided it is in groups of twelve or less decision makers....i want
>to
>know whomever i am involved with fairly intimately as close neighbors or
>extended family....i think/feel if we all agree first on some action, that
>it is more likely to build trust among us and be fun and
successful....have
>you ever tried anything like that????
>
>> Then you won't ever get anything done.
>
>well, i have done quite a bit with consensus already thru me life....and
>hope to do much more before i die....
>
>> Have you
>> ever picked up a shovel?
>
>yes, i have build and developed several homesteads with hand tools only, i
>once built a three story house out of logs in wisconsin i cut meself with
a
>bow saw (featured in national geographic book, see website "personal
>history" link if interested)...i once built a house using recycled nails i
>straightened meself...in hawaii here i cleared me farm of hundreds of weed
>trees with a 21 inch bow saw only, and moved every rock (more rock than
>soil
>where i live) on the surface of me land (hundreds of thousands i suspect)
>by
>hand and built rock walls and house structures from them....i planted many
>trees and continue to do so....
> 
>> Then your site says "We are looking to attract and create a small core
>> group of stable, self-reliant, charismatic, grounded, country farmer
>style
>> spiritual pioneers as a supportive role model or example that grows and
>> divides like a cell into supportive splinter pods or families. Our
simple
>> but fair and powerful unique council format guarantees freedom from
>> control, co-dependency, and domination for all those ready and
>responsible
>> enough to get seriously involved."
>> 
>> Forest, I'm not making fun of your ideals. You don't even HAVE a
>consensus
>> community, and you  simply won't get people to do things your way. You
>need
>> some experience living before you tell everybody else the right way to
>> live.
>
>it is not me way only if others agree it is fair and makes sense.....i am
>simply initiating a proposal and looking for others of like mind....it may
>change and evolve once they join in based on our consensus at that
>time.....
>
>you really don't know me too well do you??????..... i am surprised you are
>jumping to all these conclusions about me without asking more questions
>first....have you ever seriously tried experimenting with any form of
>consensus decision making for more than a year?????....have you ever been
>part of an intentional community????....who owns the land you live
>on?????.....
>
>i was on board of directors of our local food coop, i introduced consensus
>decision making to them and they flourished on it for some years before
>high
>rent and land prices forced them out of business after i moved away....i
>also supported an agroforestry non-profit coop for a few years that used
>consensus decision making which was inspired by me.....in the past i
formed
>a consensus community of 10-12 members on 10 acres here in hawaii.... i
>suspect that community would still be alive if the initial main money
>investor had kept her verbal word to turn the land into a group land trust
>after one year provided the other members made monthly payments on time,
>which we did according to our agreements with her....tho it failed because
>of her lack of integrity, the consensus council did not fail....rather it
>inspired me to continue consensus under the most difficult of
>situations.....
>
>i feel blessed spiritually to have some some limited but above average
>experience with consensus decision making....under some of the life
>threatening situations i have been in in life with so many male and female
>bullies out there, i give thanks that off and on i have had and continue
to
>have some limited but above average consensus support....
>
>after almost dying at the end of that one community i told you about
above,
>i resolved to get me own land and take care of me own life for awhile, but
>continued to promote consensus decision making with friends and
>neighbors....as a result many friends have bought their own private land
>around me, they are not yet ready for consensus on a larger scale i am
>interested in, but we do have consensus councils off and on to make
>decisions in the neighborhood.....i also do considerable communications
>regarding consensus process on the internet to interested folks.....aloha
>and peace,
>
>forest
>[email protected]
>http://www.lavazone2.com/forest/
>
>
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