who are we????

because some friends questioned me, here is some follow up on the "who are
we?" article i sent here a couple days ago....f

ps. if ever you wish to stop recieving articles from me, simply send an
email to me with remove me in the subject box and i will stop....aloha,
-- 


----- Original Message -----
From: "forest" <[email protected]>
To: "Bob 
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: One World Paradise?


on 10/31/03 7:32 AM, Bob  wrote:

> FOREST--
>
> Thanks for sending this article, apparently the blueprint for the Green's
> ideal one World Society?
>
> This is a fascinating concept, creating a world-wide society protected by
>a
> constitution similar to the US Constitution.  Is there an estimate on when
> the world's population would be ready for such a concept, considering that
> 90% of these people have lived under nothing but statist systems for ten
>to
> a thousand generations and have never known true freedom and the remaining
> 10% have lived in statist societies, like our present one, for 4-5
> generations?

i agree, this wevolution could take awhile considering the current state of
affairs on earth....

> The apparent author of this piece, whoever "ALLWE's might be there in Simi
> Valley, demonstrates that (s)he is not even ready for the constitutionally
> limited republic (s)he attempts to describe.  Within the top foot or so of
> the article bellow, the author states:  "This WEmocracy would have a
>central
> federal government and a multitude of WEgional governments very similar to
> our state governments."
>
> So what's being proposed as the ideal One World society is the present US
> Fabian Fascist Democracy expanded to a global scale.  This is NOT what we
> need.

good point.....i agree, imho he left out the important factor of changing
from democracy or majority rule to consensus decision making....imho without
this important key change in decision making it cannot succeed....in any
majority rule institution or government there is always going to be an
oppressed minority....

>  Until we understand ourselves that democracy is nearly the worst form
> of government and we get our own illegal government back into its
> Constitutional cage we cannot even begin the WEeducation process required
> for the other 90+% of the world population, let alone proposing some
> government system to impose upon them.  Imposing this theoretical
>WEmocracy
> on the world population is likely to be about as successful and economical
> as your government's present efforts to impose  it on the folks in Iraq.

well, imho we should be greatful for any and all majority rule forms of
government as they represent a major improvement over dictatorship and
monarchy, the older more oppressive forms of social politics....let's keep
in mind that in majority rule there is always an oppressed minority who is
ignored because we are in a hurry to gain power....there is corruption in
all forms of politics imho untill we form small decentralized localized
consensus political structures....these decentralized localized groups can
reach consensus in a centralized fashion also so there is a balance between
local government and central government.....the united nations, NATO, the
government of iceland, hewlit packard, the quakers, are all examples of
successful consensus decision making....we need many more....no matter what
form of government our founding fathers intended, imho it was less than
consensus and therefore had some level of corruption within it's
ranks....let's remember that most of those founding fathers of american
still had slaves...we never have had a really fair government yet

> We MUST educate US first before attempting to educate the rest of
>humanity.
> Remember what happens when we try to teach pigs to sing?  Let's get our on
> act together & be the example that the rest of the world would want to
> follow VOLUNTARILY!

i agree with some of this, but i also see each member of the huWoMan race as
being part of the problem to one degree or another....even the poorest of
americans is consuming and polluting with their lifestyle choices....we are
all guilty to one degree or another and most find it easier to point the
finger at others more guilty than themselves so they do not have to look at
their own level or degree of corruption and consuming....it is quite common
now for many to blame government for all our problems while continuing to be
part of the problem to one degree or another....government is merely an
expression of our mass level of awareness imho and we now have choices to
involve ourselves in more fair localized and family consensus governments
and continue to ignore this individual and social evolution while we grumble
and complain about those more guilty than ourselves....a scapegoat mindset
that has many limitations imho....non profit org., intentional communities,
land trust, etc. are just a few of the options most of us ignore while
trying to become falsely rich with money, we ignore the real richness of
knowledge and wisdom of how to live sustainably with nature....because of
your critique of the we guy, i reread his email and made some debate with
him on some issues which you brought up and others...below is that
debate....the main thing i liked about his article is the weness
concepts.....aloha and peace,

on 10/31/03 4:22 AM, forest at [email protected] wrote:


> These WEunited Nations of Earth would be a world commonWEalth based on the
> same political system that has worked for over 200 years in the United
>States.
> This WEmocracy would have a central federal government and a multitude of
> WEgional governments very similar to our state governments.  All
>governments
> would work in harmony and there would be no need for massive defense
> expenditures.  Consequently, the treasurWE of Earth would have a WEfund to
> provide WElief to all the hungry, sick and homeless people.  Everyone
>would go
> to sleep at night with food, bed and a roof over their head.  All WE have
>to
> do is WEvise the way WE think of WEality.  All people are part of the same
> familWE and are entitled to the basic essentials of existence.

i do have a few questions regarding this portion....imho an evolved
political system will contain consensus decision making process like the
united nations, NATO, or the country of iceland....without an evolution
toward consensus run governments corruption and pollution will continue
imho....

> This beginning has been referred to as the "Big Bang" and it merely is the
> transition from the pure spiritual state of existence into the physical
>state.
> This took place with a bang, at least that is what scientists call it, but
> actually everything in existence was there at the beginning and what is
> happening is a rearranging of the totality of existence.

imho beginnings and endings are part of our limited polarity mindset....in
more deeper spirtual terms there are no beginnings or endings....the big
bang theory is still just a theory by the way, not all scientists adhere to
it....

>  Look at it this way,
> what I am telling you is a truth you already know.  Did I tell you
>something
> new or was I merely retelling an existing truth?  There is no new
>knowledge
> only remembering things already known.

for each individual (depending on their stage of evolution) there is always
an infinite amount of unknowns left to discover, despite that which has been
known for centuries and more recently.....

>  Man is constantly and eternally being forced to
> choose between the spiritual awareness and the physical existence.

i do not feel we need to choose between the two, in more holistic terms we
are a combination of body, mind, and spirit in our present state or
awareness....

> Pardon me for the analogy but it is only proving
> that we are all united.

i agree, with a lot of your analogy, but not all....

>  People realized that they were being
> "yoused" and evolved into the ME level.

i agree, and then we sacrificed the concept of family or closeness as we
went to far overboard into me....of course this could never have happened
without a big brother to protect us while we consumed and got lazy in our
meness to the point of separation and pollution of nature....

>  Adam didn¹t have to go to work or to produce goods to barter
> or sell to get what he needed.  It was a pretty ideal situation.

i suspect it was less than ideal, but more like living like an animal in an
abundant jungle or forest....there were prowling lions and tigers and snakes
to look out for and over time other tribes to fight with over food
territories.....the old testement is nothing but wars, famines, etc...mixed
with some spiritual insights now and then by the more saintly ones.....

>  There will be no more "have nots" ­ only "haves."  All people will
> have the minimum of food, clothing and shelter.  All people who wish to
>work
> will be in a universal labor pool and will be willing to WElocate to
>various
> areas where their particular skills are WEquired.

i agree everyone should have food and shelter, but there are those who lack
taking responsibilty to provide for themselves...we need to be careful not
to over provide for those who will not learn to take care of
themselves....in other words too much welfare is not good as it can make a
lazy society that is not responsible....

>
> Actually, with the WEconomy, money will never be a problem.  There will
>only
> be one monetarWE system of a single type of currency.  It will be based on
>the
> decimal system, with one hundredth being equal to a penny, a 20th being
>equal
> to a nickel and a 10th being equal to a dime.  A quarter will still be a
> quarter and a half will still be 50 pieces of one monWE.  The money supply
> will be unlimited whenever new money is needed the money will just be
>printed.
> There will not have to be any borrowing or deficit or interest payments.
> There will be no other money to compare it against its value will not
> fluctuate against any other currencies.

not sure i see this type of money system working....sounds too much like the
current system....i would rather money go back to having "substance" like
gold and silver or some other useful medium rather than paper....

>  Marijuana will be a legal drug and will lessen
> the need to eat, and make people more introspective.

gee, i tend to get the muchies and overeat when i use the herb....

>  WE all need and
> depend on each other to survive.

i see your point here but would caution that individuals should also be in
balance as individuals by being taught from early on how to survive in the
wild alone....in other words a balance between individual self sufficiency
and global self sufficiency....this keeps us unique and creative as
individuals and not clones of each other dependant on a the masses....
>
> WE need to eliminate any separation based on religion, race, creed, or
> national origin, and focus on the common origin and conditions we all are
> experiencing.  WE need to provide the basics of food, clothing, and
>shelter
> for all people on the planet.

rather than providing food, shelter, and clothing for all i would say we
need to provide the knowlege and wisdom for all to learn to do it for
themselves without taking too much from nature or each other...

> We can solve the homeless problem by building more homes, creating more
>jobs
> as well as homes.

i would rather we teach each individual from birth how to do that themselves
in an ecological balanced way.....

> Drugs and their use can be eliminated when the WE level is achieved
>because
> this WE level will provide a calming WEsolution to peoples questioning of
>who
> they are and what they are doing and why they are here?  All the answers
>will
> be provided, there will be no more questions.

because there is an infinite amount of unknown knowledge out there to
discover imho there will always be more questions....

> Wars will be eliminated since we all are one WEpublic of Earth Sharing and
> WEdistribution will create a peaceful and plentiful WEcovery and a
>WEsession
> of abundance for posterity.

this can only happen in me mind if we have international homestead rights
for all to access nature in order to provide for themselves food, shelter,
clothing, etc....

> Send any comments, WEvision or suggestions to:

well, here are a few comments on what i read....in general i agree with most
all your concepts tho i did find some that i feel need refinement or at
least further discussion or clearity....consensus decision making over
democratic majority rule is a big area of importance imho if this process is
to be effective....thanks for sharing your rap with me...the main thing i
like about it is the "weness" factor and the optimistic outcome rather than
doomsday dwelling as many seem to do today....aloha and peace,
-- 
forest
[email protected]
http://www.lavazone2.com/forest/

=================================================

From: "Bob
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:12:40 -0800
To: "forest" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: One World Paradise?

FOREST--Thank you for your thoughtful follow-up & discussion with the author
& for keeping me in the communication process.  I'm getting closer to
understand both your ideas and his.

--bob


-- 
forest
[email protected]
http://www.lavazone2.com/forest/


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