Re: Not reinventing the wheel ...

Bruce D'Arcus a écrit :
> On 11/14/06, Stéphane Téletchéa <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> Sorry to not follow you argument but i've been on their mailing list
>> long time ago (around 2002 IIRC) and this feature is *far* from being
>> the priority. We're now close to 2007 and this is still a work in
>> progress. What we need is somthing working for the moment, and may be
>> another implementation later if they provide a better way.
> 
> The question is, is it really worth Markus' effort to do this in the short-run?

In the short run, certainly not :-)
Furthermore, i'm not able to help him coding him (otherwise i would have 
proposed myself for it).
In the long term though, the question is : do refdb need an extension to 
word processors (Writer and Word being jusst two examples, there's also 
abiword, kword, siag, ...) ?

Roughly, i think yes, in the same way it already outputs text, html, 
xml, bibtex, ... The question lies in where does it stops:
- just exporting into a common format and another software is used to 
insert into wordprocessors (at least this is already the case for 
bibtex, why not for wordprocessors), that's why i've cited bibus
- doing all the stuff (insert the citation directly into the 
wordprocessor), and in that case, refdb may benefit from others work 
(thus not reinventing the wheel).

> As for the state of OOoBib, it has indeed been slow coming. The truth
> is we need file format-level changes and then for some changes to be
> supported in Writer. Because this work requires extensive knowledge of
> both C++ and the Writer code, it can only really be done by Sun
> developers.
> 
> For the longest time, Sun didn't really care about our project.
> However, things have changed recently. For one thing, I'm working with
> the ODF TC on a new metadata system for the file format. This is sort
> of similar to Microsoft's Custom Schema support (which they are using
> to implement the new citation support in Word 2007/Open XML). For this
> reason, Sun sees it as a mechanism to add richer custom solution
> support, and so citations are for them a perfect use case to build
> around.

Nice to hear that, but infortunately, that'll probably not help me a lot 
when i'll be to wirte my publication with coworkers using either 
Openoffice.org 1.x series and Word 2003 (if not before). I'm talking 
about practical situations, within something like 6 months.

Of course, we'll find a way, but i'm trying to get a working solution in 
a not too far and unpredictable) future.

>> Second that does not solve the Word problem, bibus does.
> 
> Does Bibus support the new citation stuff in Word 2007?

Don't know yet, but the implementation *may* work as is. I know P. 
Martineau, and i think if there's a need, he'll probably release a new 
working template.

> I'd say if Markus wants to experiment with the Bibus interfaces, he
> should do it. But it sounds like he has the same opinion that the
> KWord lead I talked to recently has: better to think of a more generic
> solution.

I'll ever agree with this, but this 'thinking' process just lies in the 
middle of the problem: actually, we don't have *any* integrated solution.
Remember the whole GPL driving force : release soon, release often ...


> My suggestion would be to see if we can engage a larger discussion
> that includes the Zotero developers about how best to move forward on
> this. They are explicitly targeting Word 2007.
> 
> Bruce

Ok for this, but only if there is an agreement on common features and a 
designated leader. But that'll remember me the 2002 discussions on the 
OpenOffice.org ML that led to the current situation :-(

I totally agree on your long-term objectives, but that would 
definitively not prevent getting a first smaller implementation (after 
all, the ODT format has taken some time to grow, i presume the bib 
extensions would need some maturation within versions also).

Cheers,

Stéphane

-- 
Stéphane Téletchéa, PhD.                  http://www.steletch.org
Unité Mathématique Informatique et Génome http://migale.jouy.inra.fr/mig
INRA, Domaine de Vilvert                  Tél : (33) 134 652 891
78352 Jouy-en-Josas cedex, France         Fax : (33) 134 652 901

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