Re: @xml:base with @rendition (and maybe other pointers)

Hugh Cayless <[email protected]> Wed, 3 May 2017 08:50:11 -0400
Newsgroups gmane.text.tei.general
Message-ID <[email protected]>
I might argue that in the case of a born-digital document, since it *is* the=
 original, the encoder is on solid ground saying how they want it rendered w=
ith @rendition.=20

Sent from my phone.=20

> On May 3, 2017, at 08:34, Martin Holmes <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
>> On 2017-05-03 05:26 AM, John P. McCaskey wrote:
>> Another reason to design for internal renditions only:
>>=20
>> Renditions are supposed to indicate how a source document is formatted,
>> not how a TEI document should be presented.
>=20
> Absolutely.
>=20
>> Someone will say, =81gI want an external renditions file so I can easily
>> change the formatting of, say, <head> elements on all my TEI files.=81g B=
ut
>> that is to misuse <rendition>. Renditions are supposed to be
>> document-specific. There is an argument that external renditions should
>> be positively disallowed.
>=20
> I often use the rendition descriptions in a document to try to render a di=
gital edition as similarly as possible to the original; this is surely not a=
busive. But there is also the case of born-digital documents such as modern j=
ournal articles. Would you want to ban the use of <rendition> and @rendition=
 for such documents on the basis that there's no original source that's bein=
g described?
>=20
> I don't necessarily disagree with this; there's a reasonable argument that=
 says in a digitally-authored document, you can simply tag correctly (i.e. i=
dentify what everything _is_), and then the rendering should apply the appro=
priate formatting based on the journal's house style. But one can imagine al=
l sorts of exceptions (such as quotations from primary sources inside the ar=
ticle).
>=20
> Cheers,
> Martin
>=20
>> Corpus-wide formatting changes should be done with stylesheets, not
>> external rendition pointers.
>>=20
>> --
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On 5/3/2017 8:08 AM, John P. McCaskey wrote:
>>>=20
>>> I started this because of a multi-purpose stylesheet I have.
>>>=20
>>> I think I=81fll keep the bug and promote it as a feature:
>>>=20
>>> =81gExternal renditions are not supported; renditions ignore xml:base. S=
o
>>> go ahead and encode with local file names throughout your document.
>>> Later when you deploy, use xml:base to set a root directory for those
>>> files and your renditions won=81ft get messed up.=81h
>>>=20
>>> -- John
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> On 5/2/2017 5:39 PM, Hugh Cayless wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> On May 2, 2017, at 17:07, Syd Bauman <[email protected]
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> Hugh --
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Where does it say the interpretation of a fragment ID *with respect
>>>>> to its @xml:base* depends on the media type?
>>>>=20
>>>> I don't believe it does. I was looking at things
>>>> like https://www.w3.org/TR/fragid-best-practices/, which says that
>>>> the behaviors with regard to fragment references depend on the media
>>>> type. To be sure, I'm not certain we'd actually be free to define a
>>>> custom behavior for fragment ids because we have to follow the
>>>> behaviors defined for XML. They're thinking particularly of cases
>>>> where you might not have the whole file.
>>>>=20
>>>> I can't see how we could insist #word-type URIs would result in the
>>>> retrieval of a different document. As Michael says, the assumption is
>>>> that you've already got the referenced document, even if the base
>>>> points to a different one.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> John --
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Yes, I think a base URI is specific to an element (which might be the
>>>>> whole document, might not).
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Yes, I think the quoted passage is saying that a fragment ID points
>>>>> to the same document as the base URI in effect.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> No, I'm not at all sure the paragraph in the xml:base spec does say
>>>>> that fragment IDs should honor the xml:base. But then again, I'm not
>>>>> at all sure it *doesn't* say that.
>>>>=20
>>>> I can't read RFC
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> In XML, isn=81ft =81gbase URI=81g something specific to an element, n=
ot to
>>>>>> the document?
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> If so, the passage quoted is not saying that fragment IDs can point
>>>>>> only to the document they are in, just that a fragment ID points to
>>>>>> the same document as the base URI in effect for the containing XML
>>>>>> element.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Doesn=81ft this paragraph <https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlbase/#matching>
>>>>>> say fragment IDs should honor the complete xml:base value in effect
>>>>>> for the attribute=81fs element?
>>>=20
>>=20