Re: @xml:base with @rendition (and maybe other pointers)

"John P. McCaskey" <[email protected]> Wed, 3 May 2017 09:28:56 -0400
Newsgroups gmane.text.tei.general
Message-ID <[email protected]>
There should be renditions on born-digital documents, but they should=20
express the authors=E2=80=99 decisions about the particular document. Int=
ernal=20
renditions embed those decisions in the document, as they should.=20
Corpus-wide publication standards should be implemented with external=20
stylesheets, not external renditions.

Best practice would be to use born-digital renditions only where needed=20
to present the content accurately.

Disallowing external renditions would help maintain the separation=20
between document-specific content and corpus-wide formatting.

I would not support external renditions if it creates even a tiny burden=20
elsewhere.

--

On 5/3/2017 8:50 AM, Hugh Cayless wrote:
> I might argue that in the case of a born-digital document, since it *is=
* the original, the encoder is on solid ground saying how they want it re=
ndered with @rendition.
>
> Sent from my phone.
>
>> On May 3, 2017, at 08:34, Martin Holmes <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-05-03 05:26 AM, John P. McCaskey wrote:
>>> Another reason to design for internal renditions only:
>>>
>>> Renditions are supposed to indicate how a source document is formatte=
d,
>>> not how a TEI document should be presented.
>> Absolutely.
>>
>>> Someone will say, =E2=80=9CI want an external renditions file so I ca=
n easily
>>> change the formatting of, say, <head> elements on all my TEI files.=E2=
=80=9C But
>>> that is to misuse <rendition>. Renditions are supposed to be
>>> document-specific. There is an argument that external renditions shou=
ld
>>> be positively disallowed.
>> I often use the rendition descriptions in a document to try to render =
a digital edition as similarly as possible to the original; this is surel=
y not abusive. But there is also the case of born-digital documents such =
as modern journal articles. Would you want to ban the use of <rendition> =
and @rendition for such documents on the basis that there's no original s=
ource that's being described?
>>
>> I don't necessarily disagree with this; there's a reasonable argument =
that says in a digitally-authored document, you can simply tag correctly =
(i.e. identify what everything _is_), and then the rendering should apply=
 the appropriate formatting based on the journal's house style. But one c=
an imagine all sorts of exceptions (such as quotations from primary sourc=
es inside the article).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Martin
>>
>>> Corpus-wide formatting changes should be done with stylesheets, not
>>> external rendition pointers.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 5/3/2017 8:08 AM, John P. McCaskey wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I started this because of a multi-purpose stylesheet I have.
>>>>
>>>> I think I=E2=80=99ll keep the bug and promote it as a feature:
>>>>
>>>> =E2=80=9CExternal renditions are not supported; renditions ignore xm=
l:base. So
>>>> go ahead and encode with local file names throughout your document.
>>>> Later when you deploy, use xml:base to set a root directory for thos=
e
>>>> files and your renditions won=E2=80=99t get messed up.=E2=80=9D
>>>>
>>>> -- John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/2/2017 5:39 PM, Hugh Cayless wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 2, 2017, at 17:07, Syd Bauman <[email protected]
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hugh --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where does it say the interpretation of a fragment ID *with respec=
t
>>>>>> to its @xml:base* depends on the media type?
>>>>> I don't believe it does. I was looking at things
>>>>> like https://www.w3.org/TR/fragid-best-practices/, which says that
>>>>> the behaviors with regard to fragment references depend on the medi=
a
>>>>> type. To be sure, I'm not certain we'd actually be free to define a
>>>>> custom behavior for fragment ids because we have to follow the
>>>>> behaviors defined for XML. They're thinking particularly of cases
>>>>> where you might not have the whole file.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't see how we could insist #word-type URIs would result in the
>>>>> retrieval of a different document. As Michael says, the assumption =
is
>>>>> that you've already got the referenced document, even if the base
>>>>> points to a different one.
>>>>>> John --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I think a base URI is specific to an element (which might be =
the
>>>>>> whole document, might not).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I think the quoted passage is saying that a fragment ID point=
s
>>>>>> to the same document as the base URI in effect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, I'm not at all sure the paragraph in the xml:base spec does sa=
y
>>>>>> that fragment IDs should honor the xml:base. But then again, I'm n=
ot
>>>>>> at all sure it *doesn't* say that.
>>>>> I can't read RFC
>>>>>>> In XML, isn=E2=80=99t =E2=80=9Cbase URI=E2=80=9C something specif=
ic to an element, not to
>>>>>>> the document?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If so, the passage quoted is not saying that fragment IDs can poi=
nt
>>>>>>> only to the document they are in, just that a fragment ID points =
to
>>>>>>> the same document as the base URI in effect for the containing XM=
L
>>>>>>> element.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doesn=E2=80=99t this paragraph <https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlbase/#ma=
tching>
>>>>>>> say fragment IDs should honor the complete xml:base value in effe=
ct
>>>>>>> for the attribute=E2=80=99s element?