Re: Seeming hostility to conlang scripts?
"Mark E. Shoulson via Unicode" <[email protected]> Sun, 31 May 2026 13:28:00 -0400
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------PKNCtNECHwJXHJ50vcOktyYL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Wait, Sitelen Pona gets used? (Of course it does, or it might, but I wouldn't know. Nor do you seem to consider that scripts you aren't familiar with get used.) Tengwar and Cirth are popular, and see https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2016/16329-piqad-returns.pdf for examples of Klingon pIqaD usage. ~mark On 5/29/26 5:41 PM, Gabriel Tellez via Unicode wrote: > Are there any conlang scripts, other than Sitelen Pona, that *do* get > used? > > On Thu, May 28, 2026 at 3:16 PM Michael De Roover > <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Thursday, 28 May 2026 20:35:45 Central European Summer Time > Gabriel Tellez > via Unicode wrote: > > Sure but Teyvat Script is, as you seem to have said, is 1 to 1 > with latin. > > So it has no need to be encoded in the first place. These other > scripts > > (pIqaD, Tengwar, Cirth, Sarati) don't have that. > > Admittedly, I am not familiar with these franchises or their scripts. > Uncultured as I am however, the legality and usage issues do still > stand. > > I do think it is worth considering them in context of Esperanto, > which despite > being a conlang did manage to secure itself a critical base of > primary > speakers, and Unicode support. These languages could become like > that too, but > their communities will have to put in the work first to prove > usefulness. > > >From my developer standpoint, I don't mind certain ignorable > parts of a spec > existing, provided that I don't need to add those to my > implementations. By > that I mean that I don't mind inclusion of *some* aspects that I > may consider > to be cruft for my own implementation, provided that ignoring them > is allowed > by the spec. > > The other day I was working on an SMTP receiver, which will > implement HELO/ > EHLO, MAIL, RCPT, DATA, QUIT, and RSET commands. There do exist > other commands > in the SMTP specs, which I will not implement and only gracefully > refuse. But > that graceful refusal does take decision on my end, as to how much > I need to > implement of those, and what I consider to be sufficiently cruft > to ignore while > remaining in spec. > > That decision-making on an individual implementer's part is my > concern here. I > believe that this is primarily a given standard's job. Any > deviation thereof, > even when it remains in spec, introduces uncertainty. And while I do > acknowledge each of these fandoms, including my own, I would not > be willing to > implement any of them unless required by my employer (which will > contractually > take the legal burden). While the fandoms of each of these > franchises are > enormous, their conlangs' usefulness does not currently extend > beyond those > fandoms. And I would definitely not want to be sued by their > rights holders > over it, no matter how boneheaded the fandoms may be about it (and > Genshin's > is no different). Nor do I want Unicode to be exposed to that either. > > -- > [Met vriendelijke groet] [Best regards] > [Michael De Roover] > --- --- --- --- > [Mail] [*@nixmagic.com <http://nixmagic.com>] > [michael@[email protected] <http://de.roover.eu.org>] > [Web] [https://michael.de.roover.eu.org] > [Forge] [https://git.nixmagic.com] > [Weather] [Antwerpen] [20:00] [24.5°C] > --- --- --- --- > [0] [2026-05-28 20:50 CEST] > [~] [[email protected]] > [$] [/usr/bin/sign-mail] [>_] > --- --- --- --- > > > --------------PKNCtNECHwJXHJ50vcOktyYL Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <!DOCTYPE html> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> </head> <body> <p>Wait, Sitelen Pona gets used?</p> <p>(Of course it does, or it might, but I wouldn't know. Nor do you seem to consider that scripts you aren't familiar with get used.) Tengwar and Cirth are popular, and see <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2016/16329-piqad-returns.pdf">https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2016/16329-piqad-returns.pdf</a> for examples of Klingon pIqaD usage.</p> <p>~mark</p> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/29/26 5:41 PM, Gabriel Tellez via Unicode wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CALpKH7osb5ShVGwjdPjb3HMu_54gqLX=3xLrq+FeNFcnEtwy_w@mail.gmail.com"> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> <div dir="ltr">Are there any conlang scripts, other than Sitelen Pona, that *do* get used?</div> <br> <div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"> <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, May 28, 2026 at 3:16 PM Michael De Roover <<a href="mailto:[email protected]" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Thursday, 28 May 2026 20:35:45 Central European Summer Time Gabriel Tellez <br> via Unicode wrote:<br> > Sure but Teyvat Script is, as you seem to have said, is 1 to 1 with latin.<br> > So it has no need to be encoded in the first place. These other scripts<br> > (pIqaD, Tengwar, Cirth, Sarati) don't have that.<br> <br> Admittedly, I am not familiar with these franchises or their scripts. <br> Uncultured as I am however, the legality and usage issues do still stand.<br> <br> I do think it is worth considering them in context of Esperanto, which despite <br> being a conlang did manage to secure itself a critical base of primary <br> speakers, and Unicode support. These languages could become like that too, but <br> their communities will have to put in the work first to prove usefulness.<br> <br> >From my developer standpoint, I don't mind certain ignorable parts of a spec <br> existing, provided that I don't need to add those to my implementations. By <br> that I mean that I don't mind inclusion of *some* aspects that I may consider <br> to be cruft for my own implementation, provided that ignoring them is allowed <br> by the spec.<br> <br> The other day I was working on an SMTP receiver, which will implement HELO/<br> EHLO, MAIL, RCPT, DATA, QUIT, and RSET commands. There do exist other commands <br> in the SMTP specs, which I will not implement and only gracefully refuse. But <br> that graceful refusal does take decision on my end, as to how much I need to <br> implement of those, and what I consider to be sufficiently cruft to ignore while <br> remaining in spec.<br> <br> That decision-making on an individual implementer's part is my concern here. I <br> believe that this is primarily a given standard's job. Any deviation thereof, <br> even when it remains in spec, introduces uncertainty. And while I do <br> acknowledge each of these fandoms, including my own, I would not be willing to <br> implement any of them unless required by my employer (which will contractually <br> take the legal burden). While the fandoms of each of these franchises are <br> enormous, their conlangs' usefulness does not currently extend beyond those <br> fandoms. And I would definitely not want to be sued by their rights holders <br> over it, no matter how boneheaded the fandoms may be about it (and Genshin's <br> is no different). Nor do I want Unicode to be exposed to that either.<br> <br> -- <br> [Met vriendelijke groet] [Best regards]<br> [Michael De Roover]<br> --- --- --- --- <br> [Mail] [*@<a href="http://nixmagic.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nixmagic.com</a>] [michael@at@<a href="http://de.roover.eu.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">de.roover.eu.org</a>]<br> [Web] [<a href="https://michael.de.roover.eu.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://michael.de.roover.eu.org</a>]<br> [Forge] [<a href="https://git.nixmagic.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://git.nixmagic.com</a>]<br> [Weather] [Antwerpen] [20:00] [24.5°C]<br> --- --- --- --- <br> [0] [2026-05-28 20:50 CEST]<br> [~] [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>]<br> [$] [/usr/bin/sign-mail] [>_] <br> --- --- --- --- <br> <br> <br> <br> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> </body> </html> --------------PKNCtNECHwJXHJ50vcOktyYL--