Re: Blink sets course to deprecate SVG animation
"James Churchman [email protected] [svg-developers]" <[email protected]> Tue, 5 May 2015 21:21:35 +0100
| Newsgroups | gmane.text.xml.svg.devel |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAE0yOYmw6V3DvDN5ohrV6Z50N2coPUFJ2uEFar1ioa6u50jU8Q@mail.gmail.com> |
--001a11c3d7d4da2b1c05155b6cd6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i agree and think its mad for crome to remove an office standard that they have already implemented where the proposed replacements offer only some of the solution with out scripting Also any thoughts on the "Animated properties" such as SVGAnimatedInteger and SVGAnimatedLength etc.. and if i can safely use them today? the seem to have such little mention online ? and will these be removed also ? On Tuesday, 5 May 2015, 'Dailey, David P.' [email protected] [svg-developers] <[email protected]> wrote: > > > The last time I had attempted to defend SMIL and expressed indignation that the SVG standard had been commandeered by CSS. I was told that such thinking was unconstructive. I suppose, in retrospect, it was. It did not stop any lemmings from going over a cliff, did it? > > > > If Microsoft plays their cards right, they will use the opportunity to implement SMIL and then publicize the heck out of the fact that Chrome is not standards compliant! > > > > I remember back circa 2006 or 07 predicting, here at svg-developers, that Adobe would rather regret its decision to get out of the SVG business in favor of Flash, and that Microsoft, if smart, would jump into the SVG game. It=E2=80=99s a great chance for MSFT to move forward and capitalize = upon a googlebooble. > > > > I figure it will take about 5 years to fix the CSS spec to handle 90% of what SMIL can already do (the 10% they can=E2=80=99t do will be just attrib= uted to =E2=80=9Cwell no one really wanted to do it anyhow =E2=80=93 just look at t= he web counts!=E2=80=9D), and then another 4 years =E2=80=98til the browsers come = to agreement on what the new spec means, so this in essence gives MSFT 9 years to capitalize on may prove to be a strategic misstep by the Blinkers. But, you know, if this is what we mean by web standards, I rather think the W3C may be intent on proving itself to be the wrong body for doing it. SMIL has been a part of SVG for 15 years, right? > > > > I guess I do have opinions after all! BTW I=E2=80=99m reimplementing a lo= t of my SMIL/filters examples that use enable-background since someone decided they didn=E2=80=99t want to implement that. They look really nice at Ello! See f= or example: https://ello.co/ddailey/post/MlH3JRyBn-roGTQGra86rw or work back about a month from here: https://ello.co/ddailey?start_timestamp=3D2015-05-= 01 > > These examples are a few years away from working in CSS, I think. > > > > Chrome can =E2=80=9Cdeprecate=E2=80=9D the standards, if they want, thoug= h it seems like a bad use of the word =E2=80=9Cdeprecate=E2=80=9D. Mozilla seems still to b= e rather enlightened vis a vis SMIL and they=E2=80=99ll probably enjoy the added mar= ket share (and enthusiasm)! > > > > On a somewhat related issue, some folks at Google and Wikipedia seem to be talking about elevating SVG=E2=80=99s status at Wikipedia and maybe even= , adding interactivity to an svg when it is the source of an HTML <img> tag. This could ultimately be used to trigger non-scripted animation (presumably of the CSS sort, since Wikipedia likes cross-browser consistency and Microsoft seems to be moving forward with that stuff). > > > > Cheers > > David > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 3:00 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [svg-developers] Blink sets course to deprecate SVG animatio= n > > > > > > My thoughts in a comment on original google thread: --001a11c3d7d4da2b1c05155b6cd6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <head> <style type=3D"text/css"> <!-- /* start of attachment style */ .ygrp-photo-title{ clear: both; font-size: smaller; height: 15px; overflow: hidden; text-align: center; width: 75px; } div.ygrp-photo{ background-position: center; background-repeat: no-repeat; background-color: white; border: 1px solid black; height: 62px; width: 62px; } div.photo-title=20 a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div.photo-title a:visited { text-decoration: none;=20 } div.attach-table div.attach-row { clear: both; } div.attach-table div.attach-row div { float: left; /* margin: 2px;*/ } p { clear: both; padding: 15px 0 3px 0; overflow: hidden; } div.ygrp-file { width: 30px; valign: middle; } div.attach-table div.attach-row div div a { text-decoration: none; } div.attach-table div.attach-row div div span { font-weight: normal; } div.ygrp-file-title { font-weight: bold; } /* end of attachment style */ --> </style> </head> <html> <head> <style type=3D"text/css"> <!-- #ygrp-mkp { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; margin: 10px 0; padding: 0 10px; } #ygrp-mkp hr { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; } #ygrp-mkp #hd { color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0; } #ygrp-mkp #ads { margin-bottom: 10px; } #ygrp-mkp .ad { padding: 0 0; } #ygrp-mkp .ad p { margin: 0; } #ygrp-mkp .ad a { color: #0000ff; text-decoration: none; } --> </style> </head> <body> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <br><br> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> i agree and think its mad for crome to remove an office standard that they = have already implemented where the proposed replacements offer only some of= the solution with out scripting <br><br>Also any thoughts on the "Ani= mated properties" such as SVGAnimatedInteger and SVGAnimatedLength etc= .. and if i can safely use them today? the seem to have such little mention= online ? and will these be removed also ?<br><br>On Tuesday, 5 May 2015, &= #39;Dailey, David P.' <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">david.dai= [email protected]</a> [svg-developers] <<a href=3D"mailto:svg-developers@yahoo= groups.com">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br>> =C2=A0<br= >><br>> The last time I had attempted to defend SMIL and expressed in= dignation that the SVG standard had been commandeered by CSS.=C2=A0 I was t= old that such thinking was unconstructive. I suppose, in retrospect, it was= .=C2=A0 It did not stop any lemmings from going over a cliff, did it?<br>&g= t;<br>> =C2=A0<br>><br>> If Microsoft plays their cards right, the= y will use the opportunity to implement SMIL and then publicize the heck ou= t of the fact that Chrome is not standards compliant!<br>><br>> =C2= =A0<br>><br>> I remember back circa 2006 or 07 predicting, here at sv= g-developers, that Adobe would rather regret its decision to get out of the= SVG business in favor of Flash, and that Microsoft, if smart, would jump i= nto the SVG game.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s a great chance for MSFT to move forwar= d and capitalize upon a googlebooble.<br>><br>> =C2=A0<br>><br>>= ; I figure it will take about 5 years to fix the CSS spec to handle 90% of = what SMIL can already do (the 10% they can=E2=80=99t do will be just attrib= uted to =E2=80=9Cwell no one really wanted to do it anyhow =E2=80=93 just l= ook at the web counts!=E2=80=9D), and then another 4 years =E2=80=98til the= browsers come to agreement on what the new spec means, so this in essence = gives MSFT 9 years to capitalize on may prove to be a strategic misstep by = the Blinkers. But, you know, if this is what we mean by web standards, I ra= ther think the W3C may be intent on proving itself to be the wrong body for= doing it. SMIL has been a part of SVG for 15 years, right?<br>><br>>= =C2=A0<br>><br>> I guess I do have opinions after all! BTW I=E2=80= =99m reimplementing a lot of my SMIL/filters examples that use enable-backg= round since someone decided they didn=E2=80=99t want to implement that. The= y look really nice at Ello! See for example: <a href=3D"https://ello.co/dda= iley/post/MlH3JRyBn-roGTQGra86rw">https://ello.co/ddailey/post/MlH3JRyBn-ro= GTQGra86rw</a> or work back about a month from here: <a href=3D"https://ell= o.co/ddailey?start_timestamp=3D2015-05-01">https://ello.co/ddailey?start_ti= mestamp=3D2015-05-01</a><br>><br>> These examples are a few years awa= y from working in CSS, I think.<br>><br>> =C2=A0<br>><br>> Chro= me can =E2=80=9Cdeprecate=E2=80=9D the standards, if they want, though it s= eems like a bad use of the word =E2=80=9Cdeprecate=E2=80=9D. Mozilla seems = still to be rather enlightened vis a vis SMIL and they=E2=80=99ll probably = enjoy the added market share (and enthusiasm)!<br>><br>> =C2=A0<br>&g= t;<br>> On a somewhat related issue, some folks at Google and Wikipedia = seem to be talking about elevating SVG=E2=80=99s status at Wikipedia and ma= ybe even, adding interactivity to an svg when it is the source of an HTML &= lt;img> tag. This could ultimately be used to trigger non-scripted anima= tion (presumably of the CSS sort, since Wikipedia likes cross-browser consi= stency and Microsoft seems to be moving forward with that stuff).<br>><b= r>> =C2=A0<br>><br>> Cheers<br>><br>> David<br>><br>> = =C2=A0<br>><br>> =C2=A0<br>><br>> =C2=A0<br>><br>> From: = <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">svg-developers@yahoogroup= s.com</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">svg-dev= [email protected]</a>]<br>> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 3:00 PM<br= >> To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">svg-developers@= yahoogroups.com</a><br>> Subject: Re: [svg-developers] Blink sets course= to deprecate SVG animation<br>><br>> =C2=A0<br>><br>> =C2=A0<b= r>><br>> My thoughts in a comment on original google thread: <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <br> <br> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color: white; clear: both;"/>__._,_.___</div> =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20 =20=20=20=20 <div id=3D"fromDMARC" style=3D"clear:both; margin-top: 10px;"> <hr style=3D"height:2px ; border-width:0; color:#E3E3E3; backgroun= d-color:#E3E3E3;"> Posted by: James Churchman <[email protected]> = <hr style=3D"height:2px ; border-width:0; color:#E3E3E3; background-color= :#E3E3E3;"> </div> <!-- Start Recommendations --> <!-- End Recommendations --> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <br><br> <tt> -----<BR> To unsubscribe send a message to: [email protected]= m<BR> -or-<BR> visit <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers">http://group= s.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers</a> and click "edit my membership&quo= t;<BR> ----</tt> <br><br> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <img src=3D"http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=3D97476590/grpId=3D1298421/grpspI= d=3D1706030390/msgId=3D66481/stime=3D1430857697" width=3D"1" height=3D"1"> = <br> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> =20=20 <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <br> =20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20 =20 <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id=3D"ygrp-vital" style=3D"background-color: #f2f2f2; font-fam= ily: Verdana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;"> <span id=3D"vithd" style=3D"font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-tr= ansform: uppercase; "><a href=3D"https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/svg-de= velopers/info;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJlaG1kZjZnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyOTg0MjEEZ3= Jwc3BJZAMxNzA2MDMwMzkwBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQzMDg1NzY5Nw--" sty= le=3D"text-decoration: none;">Visit Your Group</a></span> <ul style=3D"list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: in= line;"> <li style=3D"border-right: 1px solid #000; font-weight: 700; di= splay: inline; padding: 0 5px; margin-left: 0;"> <span class=3D"cat"><a href=3D"https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/sv= g-developers/members/all;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJmOGRyOTdmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE= yOTg0MjEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA2MDMwMzkwBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzE0MzA4NT= c2OTc-" style=3D"text-decoration: none;">New Members</a></span> <span class=3D"ct" style=3D"color: #ff7900;">1</span> </li> </ul> </div> <div id=3D"ft" style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 11px; margin-top: 5p= x; padding: 0 2px 0 0; clear: both;"> <a href=3D"https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJkNjFkY3B2BF9TAzk3ND= c2NTkwBGdycElkAzEyOTg0MjEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA2MDMwMzkwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzd= GltZQMxNDMwODU3Njk3" style=3D"float: left;"><img src=3D"http://l.yimg.com/r= u/static/images/yg/img/email/new_logo/logo-groups-137x15.png" height=3D"15"= width=3D"137" alt=3D"Yahoo! Groups" style=3D"border: 0;"/></a> <div style=3D"color: #747575; float: right;"> • <a href=3D"https://i= nfo.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html" style=3D"text-decoratio= n: none;">Privacy</a> • <a href=3D"mailto:svg-developers-unsubscribe@y= ahoogroups.com?subject=3DUnsubscribe" style=3D"text-decoration: none;">Unsu= bscribe</a> • <a href=3D"https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/te= rms/" style=3D"text-decoration: none;">Terms of Use</a> </div> </div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> </div> <!-- ygrp-msg --> =20=20=20 <br> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> <div style=3D"color: white; clear: both;"/>__,_._,___</div> </body> </html> --001a11c3d7d4da2b1c05155b6cd6--