Re: YAML 1.2/1.* vs YAML 2.0

I'm in favor of seeing a YAML 2.0 with a much simpler spec than YAML 1.x.
But I'm also wondering what role in your view, Andrey, that YAML 2.0 would
fill that JSON doesn't already fill.

Personally, my ideal data serialization language would be something like
"markdown for data": easy to read, easy to write, sufficiently flexible to
represent more or less arbitrary data structures (including tabular data a
la R's data.frame or Python+Pandas and Julia's DataFrame, for which storing
data in a separate CSV is unfortunately usually still the best solution).
YAML at present is pretty close, but some of its more confusing/obscure
features (e.g., folded block scalars) definitely interfere with the ease of
human read/write.

Best,
Geoff

On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 7:43 PM, Peter Murphy <[email protected]> wrote:

> All,
>
> Composite keys should stay, because they are found to be useful by
> multiple people. Good software development is done for the benefit of
> the users, not for the benefit of the programmers.
>
> The only reason they are even considered being removed is that
> composite keys offend someone's aesthetic principles. That's not a
> good reason.
>
> Best regards,
> Peter
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 10:00 AM, Timothy Hochberg <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > On the one hand, I have found composite keys useful on a number of
> occasions
> > and I would be annoyed if there wasn't an easy way to spell that in YAML.
> > However, I'm not sure they would have to be part of the core syntax.
> > Couldn't they are represented in a similar fashion to the the way ordered
> > maps are now? Except use a sequence of length 2 sequences rather than a
> > sequence of length-1 mappings. For instance:
> >
> > --- !!cmap
> > -
> >     - [key_1A, key_1B]
> >     - YAML_Value_1
> > -
> >     - [key_2A, key_2B]
> >     - YAML_Value_2
> > #...
> >
> > Where cmap stands for composite map or complex map. (That may not be
> correct
> > YAML - I never write YAML by hand these days). That's not beautiful, but
> it
> > might be sufficient for serialization applications.
> >
> > Just a thought,
> >
> > -tim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 4:04 PM Andrey Somov <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >> (I think my request to drop complex keys requires first to clarify what
> we
> >> discuss)
> >>
> >> 1) YAML 2.0 will not be backwards compatible
> >> 2) YAML 2.0 is the recognition that a lot of things should be radically
> >> improved
> >> 3) If you are happy using 1.1 - no problem. It will not disappear
> >> (if you use YAML alone and do not exchange documents - nothing to worry
> >> about)
> >> 4) YAML2 is the code name for an effort to _revitalize_ the YAML
> >> serialization language.
> >> 5) Good Parts stay (https://github.com/yaml/YAML2/wiki/Good-Parts)
> >>
> >> Now my personal vision:
> >> a) the more is thrown away - the better.
> >> b) since the complex key adds complexity and reduces readability - it
> >> should be removed
> >> c) any other counter-intuitive feature should be removed (for instance
> 18
> >> values for boolean)
> >> d) any feature which adds to "Good parts" should stay, for instance
> >> literal block scalars (because they improve readability).
> >> e) the specification should be small and simple enough to be read and
> >> understood within half of a day. If a young developer cannot get the
> spec,
> >> it will be thrown away (this is what happens now)
> >> (Those who like to read prefer "War and Peace")
> >>
> >> My proposal: remove everything except "good parts" and add only those
> >> which get enough support from the community. (if the complex keys are
> really
> >> helpful they should stay)
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Andrey
> >>
> >>
> >> P.S. JSON is younger then XML and YAML. JSON is far simpler than both.
> >> JSON has less versions than both. JSON has far less features and
> >> possibilities.
> >>
> >> JSON's unique feature - it is simple and uniform.
> >>
> >> Build a better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door
> >>
> >>
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>
> --
> Email: [email protected]
> WWW: http://www.pkmurphy.com.au/
>
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