Re: Troubleshooing advice, please...

I've let the panic fade away and after checking out the cost of off-
the-shelf systems, my persecutive today is that I can do better for 
less if I build myself one. I should be able to recycle the case, RAM, 
cooler, and drives. I already have this new PSU a home. So I'll need a 
new motherboard and CPU, and I guess a new Windows license and I can be 
back in business. I'll have a better system for no more than the flimsy 
Dell-types.

One of the main duties for this computer has been music recording. I 
had been clinging to my beloved ancient PCi audio adapter, but it was a 
problem even in this computer and I've been casually searching for a 
USB replacement. This situation will force the issue. But at least I 
can permanently forget the PCi requirement.

I actually have another desktop (a Dell!) that I can make my main 
computer until the new build comes together. My first task is to get 
some data off the SSD in the dead computer. I have a SSD adapter on its 
way - after that I can relax and take my time to make the right 
choices.

Thanks for your good ideas. I needed someone to bounce this off of and 
nobody around hear understands or cares about this kind of computer 
nerd stuff. To most people I know, a desktop computer is an antique 
curiosity, like a rotary telephone.


On 21 Mar 2024, Paul <[email protected]> wrote in
alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt: 

> You have some DDR4 in hand. You could look for a different
> solution, and try to reuse the RAM at least.
> 
> A lot of the boards now, no longer have a PCI slot. They may still
> have a kbd/mouse PS/2 hole, for at least one of the two appliances
> to go. Some even have a serial RS232 port. Both my machines have
> RS232, even though it was hardly advertised as being present. On
> one machine, I just noticed it one day while examining USB2
> headers, and I noticed "one header has a strange pinout". And that
> was an RS232 when I looked it up. 
> 
> The PCI Express slots may not be as useful as before. Before, we
> had x8/x8 on two slots, and bifurcation logic. Today, the
> mainstream boards are still sporting x16 on one slot (no external
> logic for it), and x4 (off the PCH) for the second x16 slot. The
> bandwidth is not shared any more, to the same extent it once was.
> Any arch changes, the extra lanes are used for NVMe devices,
> rather than as card slots. 
> 
> You have to watch modern machines, for how they're doing VCore.
> The heatsinks are too small. The processor draws over 200W under
> turbo, and this stresses the VCore a bit. I prefer to add cooling
> so it is less stressed, but, they don't make it easy. To do it
> properly, I'd have to change cases to make room for a fan in the
> right position. On the Test machine, I did a kind of "blower",
> mounted off the end of the drive bay, to get cooling onto VCore on
> that one. I burned my finger on VCore while testing on the kitchen
> table on the Test Machine, and that's when I determined I had not
> made a clever product choice. 
> 
> If you get a Dell or an HP, you know the VCore is going to be
> "even thinner". And at least in the case of Dell, the BIOS is
> likely to be some sort of unacceptable piece of work.
> 
> I guess I still prefer to build, but for slightly different
> reasons than before. Getting a good BIOS is part of the puzzle,
> one with settings that work.
> 
> A relatively cheap way to build a system, would be a good AM4
> board, an AMD Zen3 5600G, and your DDR4 RAM reused. But I suspect
> the 5600G are out of production, because they're too cheap and
> don't make AMD enough money. You could go upscale a bit, and get
> the one with additional L3 on it.
> 
>    [Picture] 5600G
> 
>    https://i.postimg.cc/BZYR3B7x/cpuz.gif
> 
> Another thing to watch, is the CPU cooler. The 5600G system in
> that picture, it uses the stock aluminum cooler. the adaptive
> cooling system in the BIOS, doesn't even modulate the fan at all,
> because there isn't enough stress for it to track what is going
> on. 
> 
> When you put a 200W CPU in there, the instructions say "AMD
> recommends a water cooler". I thought this was some kind of joke,
> but if you want the Turbo to get close to the "rating on the tin",
> it really appears you do need water.
> 
> For a cooler, I decided to skip the Noctua and tried a AK620 Zero
> Dark (deepcool.com) and it was a bit cheaper than a Noctua would
> have been. And it actually handles the heat OK. If the cooler is
> under-sized on a high power processor, you might see weird
> "thermal spikes" in a temperature trace. With the more capable
> cooler fitted, the control loop settles right down. With water, I
> would guess I'd get more than 4.55GHz, but not enough for me to
> want water inside the poor thing. I guess I just like air cooling.
> 
>    [Picture] 5950x at idle and full power (62C) on Deepcool AK620
> 
>    https://i.postimg.cc/XJbVph8f/power-control-recent-CPU.gif
> 
> You don't get to use the cores all that often, and I got the
> setup just for 7ZIP.
> 
>    [Picture]
> 
>    https://i.postimg.cc/RVJz4kZC/cpu-flat-out.gif
> 
> It still takes all day, to compress a backup file. And at
> 224W wall power measured, you only want to be doing that
> sort of compression in winter, when the air is cooler in here.
> 
> Maybe an Alienware would give you some of the properties of
> an enthusiast machine, but then you're paying $1000 more for
> the name (like "Cadillac").
> 
> With your experience, I'm sure it won't take you that
> long to pick something.
> 
>    Paul
>