Re: choosing a motherboard

On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 17:04:20 -0400, Paul <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 3/28/2024 2:44 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> Windows11 will not tolerate my motherboard because it lacks that chip.
>> I suspect this old machine and Win10 will outlive me, so I'm not very
>> serious about shopping for a pre-built machine and I'm kinda scared to
>> attempt a build (mostly because of the old-age frailities I've picked
>> since I built the last one, but also because of the money - I'm
>> finally fully retired now (89) and the inflation is kinda terrifying).
>> 
>> But.. I've been looking around a little anyway, mostly at pre-builts,
>> but in trying to study their components I find many modern
>> motherboards say they will only 'support' Windows10. That's a
>> deal-breaker (only one of many: no external cd rom, no front usb
>> ports, some seem to lack a harddrive bay???)
>> 
>> Anyway, like I said, I think the FIRST thing I want to consider is
>> whether it'll run WinXP and go from there. Do you guys have any advice
>> on how far back (in time) in motherboards  I must look to assure it'll
>> have drivers to run XP?
>> And of course have Win11 capability, those M sockets for ssd's, 32GB
>> RAM, a popup boot menu etc etc.
>> 
>
>Windows 11 prefers a CPU with hardware MBEC support.
>Which at the time of Windows 11, specified "no more than three year old processors".
>
>However, Windows 11 disk drive, if stuck in an older computer, still boots.
>When a Win11 version comes out which requires POPCNT instruction (not available
>on E8400), then the boot of transferred disk drives will be amended a bit.

That's very interesting. Should I acquire a Win11 laptop I might try
cloning it onto my boot drive. I imagine I'd soon get crosswise of
usoft, as the one user aspect they're interested in is one of them
cheating them out of a nickel.
>
>Windows 11 could use fTPM (BIOS TPM emulator), or it can use a physical
>TPM module (many form factors and pinouts - maybe a 14 pin one has three
>different pinouts on the market). My computer store, no longer has the TPM
>module that fits my B550 board. There is no particular reason, TPM modules
>must be "cycled" this often in design. (Changed, to fuck with the customers.)
>
>*******
>
>Win7 worked up to Skylake, with Microsoft blessing. Drivers can be
>missing on later stuff.
>
>For WinXP, you would need older-still kit, and a used system is the most
>likely to be accessible. Video drivers could be a problem on WinXP,
>and you might need an older video card. I have three that might work,
>the 7900 or so from NVidia (PCIe), the HD6450 from AMD (PCIe), and
>I have an FX5200 PCI (a horrible option, but useful in its time
>for temporary usage). The 7900 spanned WinXP thru early Win10, but
>I doubt today there is a WDDM driver of new enough vintage.
>
>Generally speaking, a WinXP machine won't span far enough forward to cover
>Win11. That's a bit too much of a stretch. Maybe you could span
>say, Win8 thru Win11 hardware wise. Or you could span WinXP thru Win10

Yep, I stuggled Win10 onto mine with an XP, Win7, Win10 triple boot.

>(which I've done with an E8400 and X48). The 7900 video card, was from
>the BFG going-out-of-business sale, and the video card might have
>been $65 brand new in box. Only one shipment of those showed up
>and I could only get one of them. The video card in the computer
>right now, is a "single-shipment" deal as well, could not go back
>to the computer store and get a second one. Some people would
>term the things I buy, as junk, and they'd be pretty close :-)
>
>But on motherboards, I don't think there's that much interest
>in keeping junk around. Just as production of DDR3 chips stopped
>last year, and this behavior is also a bit weird, compared to the
>duration of production of some older types. The world is more of
>a "here and now" place. Less depth of stock. Less TigerDirect.
>
>I would point you at a refurb, like my Optiplex 780, as that's
>an E7500 Core2 and a Q45. That's likely to run WinXP from a driver
>perspective. I don't know if that was released with Vista or
>with Win7, as the shipping OS. The Q45 is roughly the same
>vintage as my X48 (and it ran WinXP). The Optiplex 780 in Mid-Tower
>is likely easier to repair, and the smaller ones (USFF), I don't like
>the small stuff, because of the trouble in finding a decent
>video card that even remotely fits. Sure, you can use the Q45...
>for your screen saver.
>
>The machine had DisplayPort, but it's not
>DP++ and cannot be passively converted to HDMI with a $7 cable.
>But I got an active converter, and it's proved useful a number
>of times now for little projects, so not a waste of money at all.
>For example, the HDMI on my new monitor didn't work right,
>but driving the monitor using the DP to HDMI active adapter
>worked just great. That's why I've recommended to people in the
>past, to stock a few cheap active converters at home, to cover
>"issues" with the shit you buy.
>
>For the "E7500 Core2 and Q45", that refused to upgrade to
>Win10 22H2. 21H2 was fine. The installer didn't say anything, but
>I think the available driver might have been XDDM all that time,
>and eventually they dropped XDDM support and wanted some
>version of WDDM only. I stuck the HD6450 in the machine (13 watt
>card), and it has an early WDDM driver, good enough to get
>22H2 to install.
>
>I only give little hints like this, to suggest how many rough
>edges this stuff has. It takes a lot of "research", to make
>absolutely sure a used or old setup, is really worth the money.
>It helps if the machines are "regular size", so more video card
>options are available.

And also, if you read between my lines, I kinda got a stupid yen for a
blazing fast new computer. Maybe I'm trying to talk myself into it,
instead of just poking around and learning stuff 'just in case' I pull
the trigger. As Vanguard suggested, it might be wise to wait till
Win12, when they really get serious about strangling my Win10.

Also, now that Win10 is on there I hardly boot it except to perform
updates. Win7 browser is working fine so far.
>
>When my X48 died, I couldn't find a trustworthy exact replacement.
>
>I have managed to install WinXP on my X79 machine... but the
>screen ran at 800x600 (no driver for video). Which is hardly useful.
>I had to make up a little driver floppy and F6 that in. An
>Asmedia SATA card I happen to have, has a WinXP driver. I had
>to scout around my junk pile, to figure that out. Big smile on my
>face, when I insert the CD in the machine, and the stupid thing
>has a WinXP driver folder. Surprise! But not hearly as lucky on
>video. I think the video card barely got a Win7 driver (one driver),
>and the card doesn't go back further than that.
>
>Lots of calculating and scheming to do, that's for sure.
>Not an easy job (labor intensive, time waster).
>
>   Paul