Re: Betrayel

slider wrote:
> someone wrote:
>
>> Rhetoric and hyperbole can be fun.
>
>### - it's too late for any of that now, 

Not for everyone, apparently.

>you've already been exposed as  
>wearing a mask to hide behind,

What are you talking about?

> which isn't really the problem so much as  
>you actually 'believing' in that mask and thinking that mask is the real  
>you, it's not though... it's just a mask

What mask? 
Are you wearing a mask?

How many of you, real and/or unreal, are there
where you happen to be, physically, emotionally,
mentally and/or spiritually?

>> In terms of topics, newsgroups usually have them.
>> No idea what group you are cross-posting from.
>>
>> Do you have or have you had depression, schizophrenia
>> or an interest in Buddhism, Taoism or Castaneda?
>
>### - am posting from the castaneda group 

Okay.

>so we know quite a bit about  
>sorcery here, although i don't see what that's got to do with anything,  

It has to do with what is on-topic, usually.

>none of that matters enough to be an issue, 

Discussions and conversations often change sometimes
in the middle of a thread, naturally. 

Some people are more dogmatic.
They want to stay on-topic all the time.

>even mental illness so-called  
>isn't an issue ultimately, 

A star expanding beyond the habitable zone
could suggest many issues are ultimately non-issues.

Take climate change, for example,
global warming will cease when the next age
of ice begins to begin again.

>and we'd have gotten to that had you instead  
>followed the thread/line of thought through...

There is no time
like the Present
here and now
unfolding then
again and again.

>e.g., and to cut to the chase:

Okay.

> i've been teaching people to lucid dream  
>for the last 8 or 9 years, a particular + new type of dreaming called  
>WILDs or waking dreams, which involves actually dreaming while one is  
>still fully wide awake (waking dreams!) something which involves  
>deliberately opening the area of perception that so-called schizophrenics  
>have lost control of opening/closing altogether... iow: for them that door  
>opens/closes on them whenever IT wants instead of them opening/closing it  
>themselves whenever THEY want...

I recall you mentioning that early on.

>it being my contention that, when it comes to WILDing and  
>exploring/probing those altered states of waking awareness, schizophrenics  
>could well turn out to be the ultimate connoisseurs of it, total masters  
>in fact because whether they realise it or not, having that door already  
>wide open can actually be a 'gift' in terms of facility and ease in  
>reaching it, whereas so called normal people often have to struggle quite  
>a bit to get that door open initially, after which they are now  
>technically schizophrenics too albeit in complete control of it, the term  
>'schizophrenic' referring more to the fact that a person is 'not' in  
>control of it but are subject to it, and as such it's an intrusion into  
>their life they could well do without because they didn't ask for it and  
>it just screws everything up...

So, lucid dreaming is a, if not the, topic, for you. 

>my 'point' being (which we have gotten to eventually) is that there 'are'  
>instances in which so-called mental illness (e.g., schizophrenia) means  
>that person is actually closer by default to an altered state on a daily  
>basis than the average man in the street is, thus 'some' of what the OP  
>was saying/suggesting could well be correct, albeit in that particular  
>instance he couched in semi-religious terms (he mentioned christians and  
>stuff as being the context)

He also over-generalized, imo.

>cut through all that 'narrative, however, and underneath it all is the  
>clear suggestion that mental illness might not be quite what (or all) it's  
>currently defined as being, 

Agree. 
That was noted in the first few posts.

>there's obviously more to it than just  
>dismissing the whole thing because that's what doctors say to do... and  
>because everything's an aberration to them that doesn't conform itself to  
>being 'normal' - that's their gauge for everything!

Maybe for some doctors.

> - Normal/not-normal:  
>they've made a whole science out of it ffs lol, and they STILL don't  
>understand it! :)

You appear to have a group, them, in mind.
They do this and that and sew froth, etc.

In terms of Taoism seeing
as how that's the group I'm posting from, 
a line in a verse of a chapter of a book arrives
at this time called TTC 2 for short.

https://terebess.hu/english/tao/gia.html#Kap02

<< begin quote from above >>

Two

Under heaven all 
can see beauty as beauty only because there is ugliness.
All can know good as good only because there is evil.

Therefore having and not having arise together.
Difficult and easy complement each other.
Long and short contrast each other:
High and low rest upon each other;
Voice and sound harmonize each other;
Front and back follow one another.

Therefore the sage goes about ...

<< end of quote from above >>

When normal exists, abnormal emerges.

Whether all people who have what is called schizophrenia
or some people would be able to have more lucid dreams
and contribute to a culture sounds like a fine topic.

- dwellings vary. Thanks again! Cheers!