Re: Betrayel

On 13/08/2024 22:37, one wrote:
> slider wrote:
>> one wrote:
>>> slider wrote:
>>>> one wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> When winners exist, losers exist
>>>>> which sounds kinda like a game.
>>>>
>>>> ### - debating isn't a game,
>>>
>>> If, for you, it isn't or
>>> by definition it isn't, then,
>>> it might be semantics or
>>> simply how you see.
>>>
>>> The debate that is a debate
>>> might be great or simply for fun, imo.
>>
>> ### - that movie is based on a true story,
> 
> Okay.
> 
>> it actually happened,
> 
> Okay.
> 
>> a lowly
>> black college beat white harvard university in a debate about what the
>> definition of morality is and is not,
> 
> What is, what was, is and was.
> 
> People used to, own, people, naturally.
> Now-a-daze people, own, other animals and
> apparently, on average may deem it, okay.
> 
> Fish in tanks, birds in cages, dogs on leashes
> cats kept in houses and horses whipped,
> raced and who dares to say right is
> wrong and rungs ring a bell eh.
> 
>> that regardless of everything being
>> against them in a white man's world
> 
> Stereotype noted.
> 
>> the higher principles won the day and
>> the so-called white version of morality lost...
> 
> Not sure about the topic at this point.
> 
>> much of this later
>> contributing to the civil rights movement that argues everyone is
>> deserving of good/fair treatment and not just a privileged few...
> 
> Animal rights. Children's rights. Women's rights.
> 
> When right exists, everyone knows, wrong emerges.
> 
> The Tao Te Ching, Chapter 2, could apply.
> 
>> iow: this is an example of how human knowledge advances on a daily basis
>> in the daily waking world, and it applies to both nations and to
>> individuals...
> 
> Teh struggles continue. Teh, aka Te/De,
> at times translated as Virtue, Power, may
> be viewed as emerging after the Way is lost.
> 
>>>> it's an intelligent way of getting at the
>>>> truth of an issue, a win-win scenario for both sides because everyone
>>>> comes out the better for it even if they lose the debate,
>>>
>>> To surrender to win occurs at times.
>>>
>>> To let go and allow to be. A question
>>> emerges regarding higher powers or a
>>> Higher Power if there is a singularity.
>>
>> ### - on the human stage just letting things be results in the strong
>> ruling the weak and the law of 'fist' (as in might is right etc) ruling
>> the world, that being exactly what the nazi's believed in... and if the
>> world hadn't gotten together and opposed them we'd all be speaking german
>> now and going to military schools!
> 
> The world sounds kinda like a thing. Who your, we, is,
> who would be speaking German if not some other language
> might be a kind of a sort of a mental noun-thing. Ore knots.
> 
>> e.g., you mention the tao fairly often as being a narrative
> 
> Tao is a word.
> I wouldn't say Tao is a narrative.
> 
>> you like/are attracted to?
> 
> The newsgroup, alt.philosophy.taoism
> is the group from which one is posting. One being
> me of all beings as wells well and dwellings vary.
> 
>> (nada wrong with that) but under the nazis anything like
>> that would have been banned and eventually eradicated
>>
>> that struggle is still continuing btw...
> 
> Prior to reading how it still remains unstill instills.
> 
> To have a cause at times is able to motivate people.
> 
>>>> the main thing
>>>> is the argument has evolved some, and even if nothing definitive is
>>>> arrived at, at least one argument (the losing one) has been dismissed
>>>> from
>>>> the equation no matter how much appeal (emotional or otherwise) it might
>>>> have previously had... and overall that's an advance see?
>>>
>>> Given various presumptions, yes.
>>> Science and mathematics may use such a way.
>>>
>>> Psychology might depend more on a society
>>> in terms of what is defined as well or ill.
>>>
>>> Debates about what is right and/or wrong
>>> might change over time, reverse, modified, etc.
>>
>> ### - doesn't matter what culture you come from, some things are universal
>> like don't do any harm, or don't be a low life...
> 
> If such a paradigm is your, universal,
> then, t'hats your hat, flag and/or struggle
> unless it isn't a struggle.
> 
> To be content could be a Taoist mode.
> 
> Teh, De, Te, emerges after Tao, aka Dao is lost.
> 
>>>> both sides get a
>>>> win regardless of the outcome because knowledge has been advanced a
>>>> fraction...
>>>
>>> Seeing as how you appear to see debate happening,
>>> thus far, in this thread, what new knowedge have you seen?
>>
>> ### - not much, yet (smile...) there's a certain inertia that has to be
>> overcome/resisted first as people are sticklers for what they know, or
>> think/believe they know, so being opened minded has to come first before
>> anything new can enter in (ref. old zen story about needing to first empty
>> one's cup)
> 
> Okay.
> 
>> i mean, i look around here and everyone's cups are already filled to
>> overflowing, there's no room for anything more or different, people don't
>> like/resent anything 'different', they like to feel that they've gots it
>> all nailed down already...
> 
> I don't know about, everyone. Nor everyone's cup
> being as you say it appears to you to be.
> 
> You appear to have a projection screen projecting screens
> that screen what apears to you to be, stereotyping.
> 
>>>> there's a very nice movie about it that explains the above in detail
>>>>
>>>> just cut through all the hollywood-esq bs added to sell movies, and at
>>>> the
>>>> heart of it there's human awareness, discipline & advancement...
>>>>
>>>> https://ok.ru/video/2387686132251
>>>
>>> Website has something about cookies being required.
>>>
>>>> (an important movie)
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Debaters
>>>
>>> No idea how that relates to WILD nor Christ
>>> or cosmic consciousness, mental illness, healing
>>> the world or people who live on a surface.
>>>
>>> Some people see the world as in trouble,
>>> the end is near, paranoia may be their mode.
>>> Fear might be a driving energy for them.
>>
>> ### - the tibetan buddhists have a nice story/myth they circulate, it's
>> about when a 3rd of the world has actually 'reached' enlightenment, and
>> another 3rd is actually on a genuine road 'to' enlightenment, then
>> something wonderful will occur and the last 3rd - the hardest/most
>> difficult of all to enlighten: all the pigs & fishes heh - will be somehow
>> miraculously drawn-up into it via a kind of siphon-effect, and then the
>> whole world will be enlightened! (nice story huh)
> 
> Sounds good.
> Reminds one of a story in the Chuang-tzu
> about how the fish are happy.
> 
>>> As for Taoism seeing
>>> as how that's a group in to which this cross-
>>> posted thread continues and I post from,
>>> a technique is to not try to win, grow
>>> nor to change the world.
>>>
>>> The world is said to be sacred.
>>> Trying to change it is not advised.
>>
>> ### - are you suggesting/saying that the tibetan buddhists are in error
>> working to enlighten the whole world? that it's not advisable??
> 
> Paradigms vary.

Trying to set the world right before getting your
own house in order doesn't sound advisable to me.