Re: Betrayel

On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:47:40 +0100, Julian <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 13/08/2024 22:37, one wrote:
>> slider wrote:
>>> one wrote:
>>>> slider wrote:
>>>>> one wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> When winners exist, losers exist
>>>>>> which sounds kinda like a game.
>>>>>
>>>>> ### - debating isn't a game,
>>>>
>>>> If, for you, it isn't or
>>>> by definition it isn't, then,
>>>> it might be semantics or
>>>> simply how you see.
>>>>
>>>> The debate that is a debate
>>>> might be great or simply for fun, imo.
>>>
>>> ### - that movie is based on a true story,
>>  Okay.
>>
>>> it actually happened,
>>  Okay.
>>
>>> a lowly
>>> black college beat white harvard university in a debate about what the
>>> definition of morality is and is not,
>>  What is, what was, is and was.
>>  People used to, own, people, naturally.
>> Now-a-daze people, own, other animals and
>> apparently, on average may deem it, okay.
>>  Fish in tanks, birds in cages, dogs on leashes
>> cats kept in houses and horses whipped,
>> raced and who dares to say right is
>> wrong and rungs ring a bell eh.
>>
>>> that regardless of everything being
>>> against them in a white man's world
>>  Stereotype noted.
>>
>>> the higher principles won the day and
>>> the so-called white version of morality lost...
>>  Not sure about the topic at this point.
>>
>>> much of this later
>>> contributing to the civil rights movement that argues everyone is
>>> deserving of good/fair treatment and not just a privileged few...
>>  Animal rights. Children's rights. Women's rights.
>>  When right exists, everyone knows, wrong emerges.
>>  The Tao Te Ching, Chapter 2, could apply.
>>
>>> iow: this is an example of how human knowledge advances on a daily  
>>> basis
>>> in the daily waking world, and it applies to both nations and to
>>> individuals...
>>  Teh struggles continue. Teh, aka Te/De,
>> at times translated as Virtue, Power, may
>> be viewed as emerging after the Way is lost.
>>
>>>>> it's an intelligent way of getting at the
>>>>> truth of an issue, a win-win scenario for both sides because everyone
>>>>> comes out the better for it even if they lose the debate,
>>>>
>>>> To surrender to win occurs at times.
>>>>
>>>> To let go and allow to be. A question
>>>> emerges regarding higher powers or a
>>>> Higher Power if there is a singularity.
>>>
>>> ### - on the human stage just letting things be results in the strong
>>> ruling the weak and the law of 'fist' (as in might is right etc) ruling
>>> the world, that being exactly what the nazi's believed in... and if the
>>> world hadn't gotten together and opposed them we'd all be speaking  
>>> german
>>> now and going to military schools!
>>  The world sounds kinda like a thing. Who your, we, is,
>> who would be speaking German if not some other language
>> might be a kind of a sort of a mental noun-thing. Ore knots.
>>
>>> e.g., you mention the tao fairly often as being a narrative
>>  Tao is a word.
>> I wouldn't say Tao is a narrative.
>>
>>> you like/are attracted to?
>>  The newsgroup, alt.philosophy.taoism
>> is the group from which one is posting. One being
>> me of all beings as wells well and dwellings vary.
>>
>>> (nada wrong with that) but under the nazis anything like
>>> that would have been banned and eventually eradicated
>>>
>>> that struggle is still continuing btw...
>>  Prior to reading how it still remains unstill instills.
>>  To have a cause at times is able to motivate people.
>>
>>>>> the main thing
>>>>> is the argument has evolved some, and even if nothing definitive is
>>>>> arrived at, at least one argument (the losing one) has been dismissed
>>>>> from
>>>>> the equation no matter how much appeal (emotional or otherwise) it  
>>>>> might
>>>>> have previously had... and overall that's an advance see?
>>>>
>>>> Given various presumptions, yes.
>>>> Science and mathematics may use such a way.
>>>>
>>>> Psychology might depend more on a society
>>>> in terms of what is defined as well or ill.
>>>>
>>>> Debates about what is right and/or wrong
>>>> might change over time, reverse, modified, etc.
>>>
>>> ### - doesn't matter what culture you come from, some things are  
>>> universal
>>> like don't do any harm, or don't be a low life...
>>  If such a paradigm is your, universal,
>> then, t'hats your hat, flag and/or struggle
>> unless it isn't a struggle.
>>  To be content could be a Taoist mode.
>>  Teh, De, Te, emerges after Tao, aka Dao is lost.
>>
>>>>> both sides get a
>>>>> win regardless of the outcome because knowledge has been advanced a
>>>>> fraction...
>>>>
>>>> Seeing as how you appear to see debate happening,
>>>> thus far, in this thread, what new knowedge have you seen?
>>>
>>> ### - not much, yet (smile...) there's a certain inertia that has to be
>>> overcome/resisted first as people are sticklers for what they know, or
>>> think/believe they know, so being opened minded has to come first  
>>> before
>>> anything new can enter in (ref. old zen story about needing to first  
>>> empty
>>> one's cup)
>>  Okay.
>>
>>> i mean, i look around here and everyone's cups are already filled to
>>> overflowing, there's no room for anything more or different, people  
>>> don't
>>> like/resent anything 'different', they like to feel that they've gots  
>>> it
>>> all nailed down already...
>>  I don't know about, everyone. Nor everyone's cup
>> being as you say it appears to you to be.
>>  You appear to have a projection screen projecting screens
>> that screen what apears to you to be, stereotyping.
>>
>>>>> there's a very nice movie about it that explains the above in detail
>>>>>
>>>>> just cut through all the hollywood-esq bs added to sell movies, and  
>>>>> at
>>>>> the
>>>>> heart of it there's human awareness, discipline & advancement...
>>>>>
>>>>> https://ok.ru/video/2387686132251
>>>>
>>>> Website has something about cookies being required.
>>>>
>>>>> (an important movie)
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Debaters
>>>>
>>>> No idea how that relates to WILD nor Christ
>>>> or cosmic consciousness, mental illness, healing
>>>> the world or people who live on a surface.
>>>>
>>>> Some people see the world as in trouble,
>>>> the end is near, paranoia may be their mode.
>>>> Fear might be a driving energy for them.
>>>
>>> ### - the tibetan buddhists have a nice story/myth they circulate, it's
>>> about when a 3rd of the world has actually 'reached' enlightenment, and
>>> another 3rd is actually on a genuine road 'to' enlightenment, then
>>> something wonderful will occur and the last 3rd - the hardest/most
>>> difficult of all to enlighten: all the pigs & fishes heh - will be  
>>> somehow
>>> miraculously drawn-up into it via a kind of siphon-effect, and then the
>>> whole world will be enlightened! (nice story huh)
>>  Sounds good.
>> Reminds one of a story in the Chuang-tzu
>> about how the fish are happy.
>>
>>>> As for Taoism seeing
>>>> as how that's a group in to which this cross-
>>>> posted thread continues and I post from,
>>>> a technique is to not try to win, grow
>>>> nor to change the world.
>>>>
>>>> The world is said to be sacred.
>>>> Trying to change it is not advised.
>>>
>>> ### - are you suggesting/saying that the tibetan buddhists are in error
>>> working to enlighten the whole world? that it's not advisable??
>>  Paradigms vary.
>
> Trying to set the world right before getting your
> own house in order doesn't sound advisable to me.

### - the tb's have had 2600 years to get their own house in order...

they probably know what they's doing by now ;)