Re: Betrayel

On 13/08/2024 23:13, slider wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:47:40 +0100, Julian <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> On 13/08/2024 22:37, one wrote:
>>> slider wrote:
>>>> one wrote:
>>>>> slider wrote:
>>>>>> one wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When winners exist, losers exist
>>>>>>> which sounds kinda like a game.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ### - debating isn't a game,
>>>>>
>>>>> If, for you, it isn't or
>>>>> by definition it isn't, then,
>>>>> it might be semantics or
>>>>> simply how you see.
>>>>>
>>>>> The debate that is a debate
>>>>> might be great or simply for fun, imo.
>>>>
>>>> ### - that movie is based on a true story,
>>>  Okay.
>>>
>>>> it actually happened,
>>>  Okay.
>>>
>>>> a lowly
>>>> black college beat white harvard university in a debate about what the
>>>> definition of morality is and is not,
>>>  What is, what was, is and was.
>>>  People used to, own, people, naturally.
>>> Now-a-daze people, own, other animals and
>>> apparently, on average may deem it, okay.
>>>  Fish in tanks, birds in cages, dogs on leashes
>>> cats kept in houses and horses whipped,
>>> raced and who dares to say right is
>>> wrong and rungs ring a bell eh.
>>>
>>>> that regardless of everything being
>>>> against them in a white man's world
>>>  Stereotype noted.
>>>
>>>> the higher principles won the day and
>>>> the so-called white version of morality lost...
>>>  Not sure about the topic at this point.
>>>
>>>> much of this later
>>>> contributing to the civil rights movement that argues everyone is
>>>> deserving of good/fair treatment and not just a privileged few...
>>>  Animal rights. Children's rights. Women's rights.
>>>  When right exists, everyone knows, wrong emerges.
>>>  The Tao Te Ching, Chapter 2, could apply.
>>>
>>>> iow: this is an example of how human knowledge advances on a daily 
>>>> basis
>>>> in the daily waking world, and it applies to both nations and to
>>>> individuals...
>>>  Teh struggles continue. Teh, aka Te/De,
>>> at times translated as Virtue, Power, may
>>> be viewed as emerging after the Way is lost.
>>>
>>>>>> it's an intelligent way of getting at the
>>>>>> truth of an issue, a win-win scenario for both sides because everyone
>>>>>> comes out the better for it even if they lose the debate,
>>>>>
>>>>> To surrender to win occurs at times.
>>>>>
>>>>> To let go and allow to be. A question
>>>>> emerges regarding higher powers or a
>>>>> Higher Power if there is a singularity.
>>>>
>>>> ### - on the human stage just letting things be results in the strong
>>>> ruling the weak and the law of 'fist' (as in might is right etc) ruling
>>>> the world, that being exactly what the nazi's believed in... and if the
>>>> world hadn't gotten together and opposed them we'd all be speaking 
>>>> german
>>>> now and going to military schools!
>>>  The world sounds kinda like a thing. Who your, we, is,
>>> who would be speaking German if not some other language
>>> might be a kind of a sort of a mental noun-thing. Ore knots.
>>>
>>>> e.g., you mention the tao fairly often as being a narrative
>>>  Tao is a word.
>>> I wouldn't say Tao is a narrative.
>>>
>>>> you like/are attracted to?
>>>  The newsgroup, alt.philosophy.taoism
>>> is the group from which one is posting. One being
>>> me of all beings as wells well and dwellings vary.
>>>
>>>> (nada wrong with that) but under the nazis anything like
>>>> that would have been banned and eventually eradicated
>>>>
>>>> that struggle is still continuing btw...
>>>  Prior to reading how it still remains unstill instills.
>>>  To have a cause at times is able to motivate people.
>>>
>>>>>> the main thing
>>>>>> is the argument has evolved some, and even if nothing definitive is
>>>>>> arrived at, at least one argument (the losing one) has been dismissed
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> the equation no matter how much appeal (emotional or otherwise) it 
>>>>>> might
>>>>>> have previously had... and overall that's an advance see?
>>>>>
>>>>> Given various presumptions, yes.
>>>>> Science and mathematics may use such a way.
>>>>>
>>>>> Psychology might depend more on a society
>>>>> in terms of what is defined as well or ill.
>>>>>
>>>>> Debates about what is right and/or wrong
>>>>> might change over time, reverse, modified, etc.
>>>>
>>>> ### - doesn't matter what culture you come from, some things are 
>>>> universal
>>>> like don't do any harm, or don't be a low life...
>>>  If such a paradigm is your, universal,
>>> then, t'hats your hat, flag and/or struggle
>>> unless it isn't a struggle.
>>>  To be content could be a Taoist mode.
>>>  Teh, De, Te, emerges after Tao, aka Dao is lost.
>>>
>>>>>> both sides get a
>>>>>> win regardless of the outcome because knowledge has been advanced a
>>>>>> fraction...
>>>>>
>>>>> Seeing as how you appear to see debate happening,
>>>>> thus far, in this thread, what new knowedge have you seen?
>>>>
>>>> ### - not much, yet (smile...) there's a certain inertia that has to be
>>>> overcome/resisted first as people are sticklers for what they know, or
>>>> think/believe they know, so being opened minded has to come first 
>>>> before
>>>> anything new can enter in (ref. old zen story about needing to first 
>>>> empty
>>>> one's cup)
>>>  Okay.
>>>
>>>> i mean, i look around here and everyone's cups are already filled to
>>>> overflowing, there's no room for anything more or different, people 
>>>> don't
>>>> like/resent anything 'different', they like to feel that they've 
>>>> gots it
>>>> all nailed down already...
>>>  I don't know about, everyone. Nor everyone's cup
>>> being as you say it appears to you to be.
>>>  You appear to have a projection screen projecting screens
>>> that screen what apears to you to be, stereotyping.
>>>
>>>>>> there's a very nice movie about it that explains the above in detail
>>>>>>
>>>>>> just cut through all the hollywood-esq bs added to sell movies, 
>>>>>> and at
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> heart of it there's human awareness, discipline & advancement...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://ok.ru/video/2387686132251
>>>>>
>>>>> Website has something about cookies being required.
>>>>>
>>>>>> (an important movie)
>>>>>
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Debaters
>>>>>
>>>>> No idea how that relates to WILD nor Christ
>>>>> or cosmic consciousness, mental illness, healing
>>>>> the world or people who live on a surface.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some people see the world as in trouble,
>>>>> the end is near, paranoia may be their mode.
>>>>> Fear might be a driving energy for them.
>>>>
>>>> ### - the tibetan buddhists have a nice story/myth they circulate, it's
>>>> about when a 3rd of the world has actually 'reached' enlightenment, and
>>>> another 3rd is actually on a genuine road 'to' enlightenment, then
>>>> something wonderful will occur and the last 3rd - the hardest/most
>>>> difficult of all to enlighten: all the pigs & fishes heh - will be 
>>>> somehow
>>>> miraculously drawn-up into it via a kind of siphon-effect, and then the
>>>> whole world will be enlightened! (nice story huh)
>>>  Sounds good.
>>> Reminds one of a story in the Chuang-tzu
>>> about how the fish are happy.
>>>
>>>>> As for Taoism seeing
>>>>> as how that's a group in to which this cross-
>>>>> posted thread continues and I post from,
>>>>> a technique is to not try to win, grow
>>>>> nor to change the world.
>>>>>
>>>>> The world is said to be sacred.
>>>>> Trying to change it is not advised.
>>>>
>>>> ### - are you suggesting/saying that the tibetan buddhists are in error
>>>> working to enlighten the whole world? that it's not advisable??
>>>  Paradigms vary.
>>
>> Trying to set the world right before getting your
>> own house in order doesn't sound advisable to me.
> 
> ### - the tb's have had 2600 years to get their own house in order...
> 
> they probably know what they's doing by now ;)

Cats in a Chinese sack.