Re: Betrayel

On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 23:18:21 +0100, Julian <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 13/08/2024 23:13, slider wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:47:40 +0100, Julian <[email protected]>  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 13/08/2024 22:37, one wrote:
>>>> slider wrote:
>>>>> one wrote:
>>>>>> slider wrote:
>>>>>>> one wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When winners exist, losers exist
>>>>>>>> which sounds kinda like a game.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ### - debating isn't a game,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If, for you, it isn't or
>>>>>> by definition it isn't, then,
>>>>>> it might be semantics or
>>>>>> simply how you see.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The debate that is a debate
>>>>>> might be great or simply for fun, imo.
>>>>>
>>>>> ### - that movie is based on a true story,
>>>>  Okay.
>>>>
>>>>> it actually happened,
>>>>  Okay.
>>>>
>>>>> a lowly
>>>>> black college beat white harvard university in a debate about what  
>>>>> the
>>>>> definition of morality is and is not,
>>>>  What is, what was, is and was.
>>>>  People used to, own, people, naturally.
>>>> Now-a-daze people, own, other animals and
>>>> apparently, on average may deem it, okay.
>>>>  Fish in tanks, birds in cages, dogs on leashes
>>>> cats kept in houses and horses whipped,
>>>> raced and who dares to say right is
>>>> wrong and rungs ring a bell eh.
>>>>
>>>>> that regardless of everything being
>>>>> against them in a white man's world
>>>>  Stereotype noted.
>>>>
>>>>> the higher principles won the day and
>>>>> the so-called white version of morality lost...
>>>>  Not sure about the topic at this point.
>>>>
>>>>> much of this later
>>>>> contributing to the civil rights movement that argues everyone is
>>>>> deserving of good/fair treatment and not just a privileged few...
>>>>  Animal rights. Children's rights. Women's rights.
>>>>  When right exists, everyone knows, wrong emerges.
>>>>  The Tao Te Ching, Chapter 2, could apply.
>>>>
>>>>> iow: this is an example of how human knowledge advances on a daily  
>>>>> basis
>>>>> in the daily waking world, and it applies to both nations and to
>>>>> individuals...
>>>>  Teh struggles continue. Teh, aka Te/De,
>>>> at times translated as Virtue, Power, may
>>>> be viewed as emerging after the Way is lost.
>>>>
>>>>>>> it's an intelligent way of getting at the
>>>>>>> truth of an issue, a win-win scenario for both sides because  
>>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>>> comes out the better for it even if they lose the debate,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To surrender to win occurs at times.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To let go and allow to be. A question
>>>>>> emerges regarding higher powers or a
>>>>>> Higher Power if there is a singularity.
>>>>>
>>>>> ### - on the human stage just letting things be results in the strong
>>>>> ruling the weak and the law of 'fist' (as in might is right etc)  
>>>>> ruling
>>>>> the world, that being exactly what the nazi's believed in... and if  
>>>>> the
>>>>> world hadn't gotten together and opposed them we'd all be speaking  
>>>>> german
>>>>> now and going to military schools!
>>>>  The world sounds kinda like a thing. Who your, we, is,
>>>> who would be speaking German if not some other language
>>>> might be a kind of a sort of a mental noun-thing. Ore knots.
>>>>
>>>>> e.g., you mention the tao fairly often as being a narrative
>>>>  Tao is a word.
>>>> I wouldn't say Tao is a narrative.
>>>>
>>>>> you like/are attracted to?
>>>>  The newsgroup, alt.philosophy.taoism
>>>> is the group from which one is posting. One being
>>>> me of all beings as wells well and dwellings vary.
>>>>
>>>>> (nada wrong with that) but under the nazis anything like
>>>>> that would have been banned and eventually eradicated
>>>>>
>>>>> that struggle is still continuing btw...
>>>>  Prior to reading how it still remains unstill instills.
>>>>  To have a cause at times is able to motivate people.
>>>>
>>>>>>> the main thing
>>>>>>> is the argument has evolved some, and even if nothing definitive is
>>>>>>> arrived at, at least one argument (the losing one) has been  
>>>>>>> dismissed
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> the equation no matter how much appeal (emotional or otherwise) it  
>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>> have previously had... and overall that's an advance see?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given various presumptions, yes.
>>>>>> Science and mathematics may use such a way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Psychology might depend more on a society
>>>>>> in terms of what is defined as well or ill.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Debates about what is right and/or wrong
>>>>>> might change over time, reverse, modified, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> ### - doesn't matter what culture you come from, some things are  
>>>>> universal
>>>>> like don't do any harm, or don't be a low life...
>>>>  If such a paradigm is your, universal,
>>>> then, t'hats your hat, flag and/or struggle
>>>> unless it isn't a struggle.
>>>>  To be content could be a Taoist mode.
>>>>  Teh, De, Te, emerges after Tao, aka Dao is lost.
>>>>
>>>>>>> both sides get a
>>>>>>> win regardless of the outcome because knowledge has been advanced a
>>>>>>> fraction...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seeing as how you appear to see debate happening,
>>>>>> thus far, in this thread, what new knowedge have you seen?
>>>>>
>>>>> ### - not much, yet (smile...) there's a certain inertia that has to  
>>>>> be
>>>>> overcome/resisted first as people are sticklers for what they know,  
>>>>> or
>>>>> think/believe they know, so being opened minded has to come first  
>>>>> before
>>>>> anything new can enter in (ref. old zen story about needing to first  
>>>>> empty
>>>>> one's cup)
>>>>  Okay.
>>>>
>>>>> i mean, i look around here and everyone's cups are already filled to
>>>>> overflowing, there's no room for anything more or different, people  
>>>>> don't
>>>>> like/resent anything 'different', they like to feel that they've  
>>>>> gots it
>>>>> all nailed down already...
>>>>  I don't know about, everyone. Nor everyone's cup
>>>> being as you say it appears to you to be.
>>>>  You appear to have a projection screen projecting screens
>>>> that screen what apears to you to be, stereotyping.
>>>>
>>>>>>> there's a very nice movie about it that explains the above in  
>>>>>>> detail
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> just cut through all the hollywood-esq bs added to sell movies,  
>>>>>>> and at
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> heart of it there's human awareness, discipline & advancement...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://ok.ru/video/2387686132251
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Website has something about cookies being required.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (an important movie)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Debaters
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No idea how that relates to WILD nor Christ
>>>>>> or cosmic consciousness, mental illness, healing
>>>>>> the world or people who live on a surface.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some people see the world as in trouble,
>>>>>> the end is near, paranoia may be their mode.
>>>>>> Fear might be a driving energy for them.
>>>>>
>>>>> ### - the tibetan buddhists have a nice story/myth they circulate,  
>>>>> it's
>>>>> about when a 3rd of the world has actually 'reached' enlightenment,  
>>>>> and
>>>>> another 3rd is actually on a genuine road 'to' enlightenment, then
>>>>> something wonderful will occur and the last 3rd - the hardest/most
>>>>> difficult of all to enlighten: all the pigs & fishes heh - will be  
>>>>> somehow
>>>>> miraculously drawn-up into it via a kind of siphon-effect, and then  
>>>>> the
>>>>> whole world will be enlightened! (nice story huh)
>>>>  Sounds good.
>>>> Reminds one of a story in the Chuang-tzu
>>>> about how the fish are happy.
>>>>
>>>>>> As for Taoism seeing
>>>>>> as how that's a group in to which this cross-
>>>>>> posted thread continues and I post from,
>>>>>> a technique is to not try to win, grow
>>>>>> nor to change the world.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The world is said to be sacred.
>>>>>> Trying to change it is not advised.
>>>>>
>>>>> ### - are you suggesting/saying that the tibetan buddhists are in  
>>>>> error
>>>>> working to enlighten the whole world? that it's not advisable??
>>>>  Paradigms vary.
>>>
>>> Trying to set the world right before getting your
>>> own house in order doesn't sound advisable to me.
>>  ### - the tb's have had 2600 years to get their own house in order...
>>  they probably know what they's doing by now ;)
>
> Cats in a Chinese sack.

### - the chinese tried to eradicate/outlaw the tibetans because those  
tibetans represent a competing authority, insisting that any new dalai  
lama/leader must be chosen by the chinese haha :)