Re: Wind Solar unreliable compared to Gas Coal Nuclear

"Jim Wilkins" <[email protected]> wrote in message 
news:[email protected]...
> "Scout"  wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> If I can offer a suggestion, instead of a prepacked format. Maybe look at
> the boon-docking and camping areas.
>
> Buy a pure sine wave inverter, batteries and charger as individual units, 
> as
> long as high mobility isn't a factor, you can get better and cheaper as
> individual units and have the ability to customize to exactly the format 
> you
> want, and upgrade as needed based on your needs/wants.. from increasing
> charging capacity, or going to higher voltages for better efficiencies or
> different battery tech depending on weight, size, or mobility issues.
> Yes, it does take a bit more research and consideration, but all in all 
> you
> will get a system tuned to your preferences at a lower price, and if you
> should have a failure.. you only have to replace the part that failed.
> Further you have much more access to replacements when on the road as most
> RV and camping outlets will have at least a few options as replacements 
> for
> all of the parts.
>
> So if you're talking a fixed installation for your home, then weight isn't
> really an option and you can save money and get better capacity choosing
> options not limited by weight. If you're RVing you may get away with a 
> much
> smaller inverter as often much of the rest can be run directly from DC 
> thus
> eliminating the conversion loses and expense of a larger inverter.
>
> The advantage of the repacked is only simplicity and mobility.
>
> -------------------------------
>
> I briefly covered some of the advantages and disadvantages of that 
> approach when describing my DIY solar system. To expand, in order to 
> design one you need a good quantitative understanding of your requirements 
> and to study and understand the capabilities of the separate modules and 
> how they interact.
>
> Specifically an AC refrigerator draws a starting surge current that may 
> exceed 10 times its run current. You won't find that surge current in its 
> spec sheet.

No, but if you contact the manufacturer directly they should be able to 
supply that information for any specific model, contact the compressor 
manufacturer if it was sourced from a different manufacturer. Worst case 
would require real world testing, or be prepared for the worst case. About 
the only think I might add is a delay to prevent a rapid restart if power is 
interrupted.
But this was covered above under the "research and consideration" clause.
If you don't want to do it.. then design your system for worst case.. I 
pretty much promise a packaged system isn't necessarily designed to start 
every fridge out there either.

>The inverter, which must be true sine for a fridge or freezer, needs to be 
>able to supply the brief overload.

Well, given you get a true sine wave to support running motors.. surge 
current requirements are a regular design criteria of most of not all pure 
sign converters.

> Then the cable to the battery and the fuse or circuit breaker has to pass 
> the 10x higher DC current without an excessive voltage drop that would 
> fault the inverter.

Again, typically already addressed and covered by the manufacturers 
recommendations on conductor sizing.

> If the battery is Lithium its protection circuit will have maximum surge 
> and continuous current ratings which are quite low compared to lead-acid, 
> they often can't serve as vehicle starting batteries.

Yes, see "research and consideration" above.

> For my 100Ah Minis it's 100A, or 1200W which is questionable to start a 
> compact refrigerator and likely inadequate for a normal sized one. All 
> this to keep your beer cold.
>
> The heavy cables from battery to inverter are usually terminated with 
> solderless crimp terminals that interconnect on brass bolts. These 
> terminals need special large and often expensive crimpers to squeeze them 
> tight enough onto the wire. For safety the cables should be fused which 
> adds another difficult connection to make.

Or you can find a source that makes custom cables to crimp them on, or can 
hit the pluming isle and get some solder and simply solder the ends on, or 
use No-crimp ends.

If you must get a crimping tool you can search around and find one that will 
do the limited work you need for very little.
Here's one from amazon that handles 8-1/0 awg for less than $26
iCrimp Cable Lug Crimping Tool on the IWISS store front.

Indeed, it's beginning to sound like you're trying to INVENT excuses not to 
go with individual components even though it would allow greater 
customization and cheaper upgrade route if needs change.

> I've had bad results from the in-line circuit breakers sold for car audio.

Why would you use circuit breakers? Fuses are cheaper, more reliable and 
should never need to be replaced unless you have a major failure.

However, if you want circuit breakers.. they are readily available through 
RV sources including the boxes, or you can even use combined switch/circuit 
breaker. You can even get waterproof though the Boating suppliers.

> The may open at the rated current the first time, then they overheat and 
> open at lower current. I think the contacts burn. Carling or Blue Sea 
> magnetic breakers are reliable and consistent and have the required DC 
> voltage and current ratings (which house breakers don't) but need an 
> enclosure and punched or drilled mounting panel.

Why would you use a breaker designed for AC on the DC side of your system?
I mean you can get 150amp DC breakers for less money that are Marine rated 
for less than you would pay for 150 amp breaker designed for home use.

Indeed, then of course if you look into the industrial stuff you have a 
whole new pile of options and mounting options even breakers rated for AC/DC 
that are UL rated.

Then of course, there are all sorts of breakers being offered in the solar 
sphere.


> If the battery and inverter aren't fastened together the cables need 
> connectors to allow separate handling, and likely a different expensive 
> crimper.
> https://powerwerx.com/anderson-sb-connectors-sb50-50amp

Now you're just starting to repeat yourself.

> The likely enclosure for a battery is a NOCO or Atwood boat battery box 
> which doesn't have internal space or ventilation for an inverter, it can 
> be mounted outside on the cover.

Why would you mount your inverter on the battery box?

Yea, you're definitely into the 'invent excuses' mindset.

<snip>

For those of you actually interested in this, are suggested to do your own 
research as a prepackaged system is a series of compromises and probably 
will not be best for your specific needs or it is probably easy to 
reconfigure in you need to make changes much less deal with components that 
die. So do your homework, find people in your area with experience.. 
boon-dockers (ie people who live off-grid for extended periods) are usually 
an excellent source of information particularly when it comes to what brands 
and specific items are highly reliable to keep on working and what problems 
you may have or need to consider and what to do about those problems.

Some blog and following their experiences, errors, solutions and such may 
allow you to get an idea of what you should do, and what hardware you might 
want to use or avoid given their experiences.