Re: [PHP-EVANGELISM] Bad rep?

Present yourself as a programmer and not as a "PHP Programmer".  When I
hire people I look for a solid background in a variety of languages.  Even
if I need a PHP person, I am unlikely to hire someone who comes to me with
only PHP experience.  I want to see C, C++, Perl, Python and Java on the
resume.

PHP, by its very nature, is a really easy language to pick up.  That is
what has made it so popular.  People can start using it and within and day
or two they feel that they are proficient in PHP.  This is great because
it opens up web development to a lot of people who might not otherwise
have been able to program a web application.  But at the same time, this
person may not be the most attractive candidate when it comes to someone
hiring a web developer.

In the past people have suggested that we make PHP harder to use so that
only "real" programmers can use it.  This is one of the most bogus and
elitist arguments ever and it always sets me off into a fit of ranting.
PHP is a glue language that can be used at many different levels.  To some
it is a toy language because that is how they use it.  And in some ways it
is very much a toy language.  One of the best toy languages ever as a
matter of fact.  To others it is an intermediate level language that
bridges the gap between the front-end and the back-end in a 3-tier
architecture.  And to another group it is a powerful OO language used to
write large object oriented applications in.

To me personally, PHP is a powerful templating system because that is what
I originally wrote and that is how I have always used it and that is how I
am deploying it at Yahoo these days.  Trying to change peoples' perception
of something is a very difficult thing to do.  If we were a company we
would be looking at hiring a creative advertising company who would put
together feel-good tv and radio ads and perhaps some cute billboards that
would have catchy slogans and pretty hackers waterskiing or something like
that.  But we are not a company.  We are a very diverse collection of web
developers who even amongst ourselves have a hard time agreeing on what
PHP is and who the target audience of the language really should be.  We
know absolutely jack-shit about marketing and we suck at waterskiing!

-Rasmus

On Tue, 6 May 2003, Graham Rosser wrote:

> I don't know if this has been covered before, but it seems to me that
> PHP, despite its widespread use, is very much considered to be a
> "Cinderella" of the modern programming languages.
>
> How do I know this? Well, looking at the job market in the UK, it seems
> that most, if not all, the people looking for PHP skills (a small, but
> increasing, number) rate the value of those skills at something
> considerably less than basic HTML coding. In fact, if you went for a PHP
> job, you'd probably get better paid for making the tea...
>
> Certainly, the disparity between the perceived value of PHP skills and
> things like Perl, Java, JSP, etc., is absolutely vast. This applies in
> all sizes of business.
>
> I find this disconcerting because, as a programmer of some 30 years
> experience, I've adopted PHP in preference to Perl, which I find
> inelegant and quirky, and have used it increasingly in place of Shell
> and C, both of which I consider myself to be above average at coding.
>
> I'd like to think that, in adopting a language for preference, I wasn't
> being completely daft, that my reasoning was sound and based on the
> qualities that I see in that language.
>
> Is there someone out there who's taking note of how PHP is perceived?
> Am I wrong in my assessments?
> What can be done, if I'm right?
>
> Regards
>
> Graham
>
>
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