Re[2]: [PHP-EVANGELISM] Bad rep?

Hello Rasmus,

Wednesday, May 07, 2003, 5:57:48 PM, you wrote:

RL> On Wed, 7 May 2003, Graham wrote:
>> Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
>> > On Tue, 6 May 2003, Lothar Scholz wrote:
>> > 
>> >>And they are right, until PHP has real multithreading (with the new
>> >>hyperthreading Pentium-IV - it's a must have) and an application server
>> >>we won't see much better paid PHP jobs. 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > I thought this was a joke at first and was expecting a smiley.  But you 
>> > are actually serious!  That is one the of scariest things I have read in a 
>> > while.
>> 
>> PHP is precisely what every business should be looking at as its 
>> primary, general purpose scripting language. It is a benefit, not a 
>> flaw, that babies can learn it and then move on to use it for serious 
>> applications as they grow - PHP has more than sufficient low-level 
>> routine support to allow for "heavy" development in the hands of an 
>> experienced programmer - that's why I use it.

RL> And what in the world does that have to do with multithreading and 
RL> application servers?  Do you really believe that the serious web companies 
RL> out there like Google, Amazon and Yahoo use multithreaded application 
RL> servers?  Do you really believe that sort of architecture scales to 
RL> 10,000+ web servers?  

RL> Your implication was that because PHP does not have threads and because it 
RL> isn't an application server, it is not a serious language suitable for 
RL> large-scale deployment.  You have apparently bought into the marketing 
RL> hype from BEA, Sun or IBM or some other company that stands to gain quite 
RL> a bit by having you fall for this.  It is exactly because PHP is not an 
RL> application server that it is suitable for large-scale deployment.  It 
RL> lends itself extremely well to a large distributed deployment where a 
RL> single-point-of-failure application server is a nightmare.

Perhaps you miss something. The original post was not about "how to
solve your web problem" it was about jobs and salary.

Don't you agree that the IT industry is driven by hype ?
Consultants want to sell Java services and this means application servers.
I remember a previous posting from you about webspace providers which try
to keep Java for there expensive packages only, while PHP is available
on everything from 4,99 $US upward. If you accept this how can you
deny the same for consultants and there employees ?

It seems that it also doesn't matter if the IT projects in a lot of
company is just a simple waste of money and time - which is implicitly
included in the calculations by SAP or IBM. A consultant from there costs
2000 $USD. This is only possible if you sell hype.

I don't have stats for the USA but in good old germany its a fact that
you get only half the money if you do a PHP job. No matter if you are
also perfect in C++, Eiffel, Ada or whatever. PHP has the attribute of
being low cost.

<sarcasm>
So adding a few very complex and useless things to PHP could give PHP
programmers a better living. At least this looks more promising then
to convince people that they should look at there problem and not at
Orwell like marketing speech.
</sarcasm>


Best regards,
 Lothar                            mailto:[email protected]