Re: Re[2]: [PHP-EVANGELISM] Bad rep?

Hi,

The price on PHP and any other PHP development is driven by the the market
not by the technology. Anybody who pays for software development would
choos the best quality for the lowest price. The fact that PHP is an easy
language to learn and use makes it possible for a lot of developers to bid
on the same projects, and this drives down the pay.

PHP can be and is used by a lot of companies who are building custom
extensions (using PHP for what is was designed for) and for these kind of
applications you need developers with knowledge about other languages as
well as knowledge about backend systems like database servers. For jobs
like this you will find that the pay is equal to jobs where other web
technologies are prefered over PHP.

I realy like the fact that PHP is easy to install and use and it makes my
day easy but I dont see it as a problem for getting payd for what I do.
Since I discovered PHP in 1997 it has been the my tool of choice for most
web application.

- Frank

> Hello Rasmus,
> 
> Wednesday, May 07, 2003, 5:57:48 PM, you wrote:
> 
> RL> On Wed, 7 May 2003, Graham wrote:
> >> Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> >> > On Tue, 6 May 2003, Lothar Scholz wrote:
> >> > 
> >> >>And they are right, until PHP has real multithreading (with the
new
> >> >>hyperthreading Pentium-IV - it's a must have) and an application
server
> >> >>we won't see much better paid PHP jobs. 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > I thought this was a joke at first and was expecting a smiley.  But
you 
> >> > are actually serious!  That is one the of scariest things I have
read in a 
> >> > while.
> >> 
> >> PHP is precisely what every business should be looking at as its 
> >> primary, general purpose scripting language. It is a benefit, not a 
> >> flaw, that babies can learn it and then move on to use it for serious

> >> applications as they grow - PHP has more than sufficient low-level 
> >> routine support to allow for "heavy" development in the hands of an 
> >> experienced programmer - that's why I use it.
> 
> RL> And what in the world does that have to do with multithreading and 
> RL> application servers?  Do you really believe that the serious web
companies 
> RL> out there like Google, Amazon and Yahoo use multithreaded
application 
> RL> servers?  Do you really believe that sort of architecture scales to

> RL> 10,000+ web servers?  
> 
> RL> Your implication was that because PHP does not have threads and
because it 
> RL> isn't an application server, it is not a serious language suitable
for 
> RL> large-scale deployment.  You have apparently bought into the
marketing 
> RL> hype from BEA, Sun or IBM or some other company that stands to gain
quite 
> RL> a bit by having you fall for this.  It is exactly because PHP is not
an 
> RL> application server that it is suitable for large-scale deployment. 
It 
> RL> lends itself extremely well to a large distributed deployment where
a 
> RL> single-point-of-failure application server is a nightmare.
> 
> Perhaps you miss something. The original post was not about "how to
> solve your web problem" it was about jobs and salary.
> 
> Don't you agree that the IT industry is driven by hype ?
> Consultants want to sell Java services and this means application
servers.
> I remember a previous posting from you about webspace providers which
try
> to keep Java for there expensive packages only, while PHP is available
> on everything from 4,99 $US upward. If you accept this how can you
> deny the same for consultants and there employees ?
> 
> It seems that it also doesn't matter if the IT projects in a lot of
> company is just a simple waste of money and time - which is implicitly
> included in the calculations by SAP or IBM. A consultant from there
costs
> 2000 $USD. This is only possible if you sell hype.
> 
> I don't have stats for the USA but in good old germany its a fact that
> you get only half the money if you do a PHP job. No matter if you are
> also perfect in C++, Eiffel, Ada or whatever. PHP has the attribute of
> being low cost.
> 
> <sarcasm>
> So adding a few very complex and useless things to PHP could give PHP
> programmers a better living. At least this looks more promising then
> to convince people that they should look at there problem and not at
> Orwell like marketing speech.
> </sarcasm>
> 
> 
> Best regards,
>  Lothar                            mailto:[email protected]
> 
> 
> 
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