Re: [PHP-GTK-DEV] History, "Dead" and community

I can make myself available on IRC Thursday between 11:00 GMT - 13:00 GMT

On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Gage Morgan <[email protected]> wrote=
:
> YESSSSSS PLEASSSE WE NEED IT MAN
>
> --MGage--
>
>> On Jun 23, 2015, at 4:48 AM, Mr L. Pegg <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Elizabeth,
>>
>> It's been a long time :D things have picked up here though the IRC
>> channel has remained rather quiet when ever i have popped in.
>>
>> As for the documentation I have a working knowledge of the system if
>> anyone is interested in learning but it would be much more advised to
>> upgrade the documentation to a new docbook version.
>>
>> Regards Leon
>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Gage Morgan <[email protected]> w=
rote:
>>> Not for Long:
>>>
>>> We're gonna bring this back around, even if it kills us (I hope; this c=
ommunity needs some revitalization badly). Bruno is testing some stuff, and=
 Alexandre is working on an actual implementation. I hope to help both at t=
wo points in time, particularly mid- to late-July. Thank you for your suppo=
rt, and I appreciate those of you that stayed theough the darker times to h=
elp usher me in.
>>>
>>> --MGage--
>>>
>>>> On Jun 22, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Elizabeth M Smith <[email protected]=
om> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi folks.
>>>>
>>>> The mailing list got REALLY busy all of the sudden.
>>>>
>>>> I've been having issues with php mailing lists (they REALLY don't like
>>>> my email) and just realized all the stuff going on here.
>>>>
>>>> First of all it's great to have people interested in the project.  For
>>>> a LONG time it's been 1 or 2 people... with a few popping up here or
>>>> there to get interested and then moving on quickly (usually when they
>>>> realize how much work needs to be done)
>>>>
>>>> And although there's been someone keeping track of the actual code
>>>> itself - the website was completely abandoned (thanks for taking that
>>>> monstrosity on) and the documentation has been similarly abandoned
>>>> (it's in old docbook and uses xsl to generate) - the people who once
>>>> knew how that worked are gone
>>>>
>>>> There have actually been a couple of attempts to start up a php-gtk3
>>>> project before.  But it's a BIG undertaking and only having 1 or 2
>>>> people work on it makes it difficult to get off the ground.
>>>>
>>>> There's also the fact that a fully introspected version of the
>>>> extension (like pythons gobject) have some pretty deep underlying
>>>> issues (mostly related to the typelibs and the fact that they are
>>>> strongly linked in many aspects to the python gobject wrapping
>>>> implementation) - which is why although there's a prototype of an
>>>> introspected solution it doesn't really work well.
>>>>
>>>> If you're interested in some of the code you can find it
>>>> https://github.com/gtkforphp/ - some of it was actually working once
>>>> upon a time.
>>>>
>>>> I think it's a good idea to do a "new" gtk for php but I think there
>>>> are some things to keep in mind.
>>>>
>>>> 1. We do have an irc channel on freenode #php-gtk - this is a great
>>>> way to connect with the people who still work on the project and know
>>>> the code - not  only the php-gtk code and php internals code, but the
>>>> gnome libraries as well.  Especially when talking technical details
>>>> it's nice to do it in realtime.
>>>> 2. The project has never been completely dead - it just basically only
>>>> had one dev  (who is poor at recruiting) for a long time - which is
>>>> never a good thing
>>>> 3. The php-gtk source code is on php.net and mirrored on github -
>>>> there have been some prs but not a lot - and none from the people now
>>>> currently conversing on the list -  and it's also limited to the
>>>> problem of basically 1 developer to look at and pull them
>>>> 4. Discussions on the future should be all on list - not in private em=
ails :)
>>>>
>>>> Some thoughts on a complete rewrite
>>>>
>>>> 1. a monolithic extension is not very useful - php-gtk should become
>>>> several small extensions
>>>>
>>>> right now php-gtk has wrappings for gtk, gdk, some glib, atk, some
>>>> cairo integration (although most of cairo was pulled into it's own
>>>> extension)  and many others
>>>>
>>>> parts of glib, cairo, and other gnome libraries such as clutter make
>>>> sense to use not only in a gui environment, but even in a server
>>>> environment
>>>>
>>>> This would even allow for things like a gtk2 and gtk3 extension
>>>>
>>>> the extension(s) should probably mirror the underlying libraries
>>>>
>>>> glib, gobject, gio, cairo(exists, is getting a php7 fix), pango (also
>>>> exists), atk, gtk2, gtk3, gdk, clutter, gstreamer, etc.
>>>>
>>>> 2. If you're rewriting from scratch, a PHP7 only version is probably a=
 good idea
>>>>
>>>> The internal apis of php have changed an incredible amount from 5 -> 7
>>>> and it would be both very ugly and very hard to support both PHP7 and
>>>> PHP 5.6(and higher) in the same code base
>>>>
>>>> 3. PHP-gtk has very very few tests... and needs them
>>>>
>>>> This is probably as important as the rewrite - although you really
>>>> don't need to test the functionality of the gtk library itself, it IS
>>>> important to make sure the bindings are tight.
>>>>
>>>> As far as getting php-gtk commit karma, that's really not that hard
>>>> Submit some PR's - usually 2 or 3 good ones with tests
>>>> Discuss things on list and/or in IRC
>>>> As long as stuff doesn't break the build and works it gets pulled -
>>>> but remember right now there's 1 dev... so expect lag time (maybe a
>>>> week) until there are 2 or 3 or more devs capable of code reviewing,
>>>> building, and testing - because you need those checks
>>>>
>>>> If you need help getting an environment for compiling set up on
>>>> windows or linux - I'm happy to help.  Pop into irc.  If you're really
>>>> ambitious someone could update the documentation :)
>>>>
>>>> Also php-gtk could really use someone to roll releases.  We actually
>>>> should have had about 3-4 - there's been new functionality added and
>>>> build fixes done and features integrated.. just no release.
>>>>
>>>> For example - there is complete gtkbuilder integration in the git
>>>> version of php-gtk (that's the format glade3 outputs btw) - but none
>>>> of that is documented beyond some demo files.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Elizabeth M Smith
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> PHP-GTK Development Mailing List (http://gtk.php.net/)
>>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>>
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