Re: [PHP4BETA] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP4BETA] PHP 4.0.0 Release packaged

 From my point of view, this whole debate boils down to something like 
this: 

A: PHP is good, really good, but it could use a few touchups here and 
there. I think it would serve PHP better if there was some period of 
time in the release cycle devoted to fixing bugs. 

B: Why don't you just shut up and fuck off??? If you know C, fix them 
yourself, we're not responsible. If you don't know C, shut up and fuck 
off.

M: PHP is certainly a great product (hey, I wouldn't be using it if it 
weren't), but what good is in the endless function list, when a good 
portion of those functions is not documented? 

N: Why don't you just shut up and fuck off??? If you know C, read the 
source code, we're not interested. If you don't know C, shut up and fuck 
off. People who don't speak C don't deserve using PHP. 

(Also mentioned were the win32 'dissidents'.) 

X: I'm on win32, and (whatever). 
Y: Why don't you just shut up and fuck off? If you use the win32 platform, 
you're sub-human. Don't bother us. 

I will use a 'real-world example here. I remember this post, because the 
answer *shocked* me. I would expect such an answer from a 16 years old boy. 
Not from a mature man. 
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php4beta&m=95754702605916&w=2 )

>List:     php4beta
>Subject:  Re: [PHP4BETA] building php4 snap on win32
>From:     Rasmus Lerdorf <[email protected]>
>Date:     2000-05-05 17:15:50
>[Download message RAW]
>
> > our admin today built the latest php4 snap for Linux and said that there 
> > were several bugs which hindered compiling.
> > He patched them and built PHP4 for Linux.
>
>I hope he submitted appropriate bug reports.
>
> > I want to use the latest PHP4 version too, but I´m develeoping in Win32 
> > and never built something on Win32.
> > Can I use the latest snaps for this (I need gd 1.8.1 support)?
> > Can someone provide me an URL where to retrieve a compiler for building 
> > PHP4 (I do not want to install the MSDN)...
>
>You are pretty much stuck with MSVC.  You are using a commercial OS, so
>you are stuck with commercial tools as well.  Sorry.  There are plenty of
>free operating systems and tools available to you.
>
>-Rasmus


So, the question is: do you dev guys really want to see PHP used a lot in 
the world by the real people, who often come to PHP from plain HTML, and 
to whom PHP is the first programming language they learn, or you just enjoy 
creating a huge black hole sun? PHP has lots of functions. Why do you add 
them, when it seems like you don't want people to know about them? You are 
not paid for the work and time you devote to the development of PHP. You 
must be doing it for another reason then. But what is it? If the reason is 
that you want to be part of a Great Thing, then we probably don't meet on 
the meaning of the word. Isn't a Great Thing something that lots of people 
use, right because it's Great. Is it really fun creating a program few people 
will appreciate (or fewer than could, and would) just because their (lack of) 
knowledge will hide the Greatness of your work from them? 

You say you don't want to do things like the other (commercial) guys do. 
What you don't realize is, you already do it their way. If you don't believe, 
try, for example, ask for a bug fix, or just a plain explanation of a bug, for 
HomeSite. 

Where I live (Czech republic), a computer costs three monthly salaries. I just 
can't afford it. So I play with PHP on my office computer, which happens to 
run NT. I believe there are a lot more users can't (immediatelly) move to 
*BSD or Linux. Answering win32 users like this doesn't often make them convert, 
rather contrary. I think I'm quite an exception, because I bite the bullet. Of 
course, it's because I believe PHP is good (and I hope I will make my living 
thanks to PHP when I'm good enough), as well as because PHP is free, and as I 
don't have the money to buy a computer right now, I don't have the money to 
buy CF or NT server to run IIS. Not that I'd like to. 

There's more to this, but I'll just shut up and fuck off for now. 


At 04:05 21.5.2000 +0200, Sander Pilon wrote the following:
-------------------------------------------------------------- 
>PS - Em.. since when did PHP get shockwave support? There's no mention of it
>in the manual or the notes :)
------end of quote------ 

At 09:38 21.5.2000 +0200, [email protected] wrote the following:
-------------------------------------------------------------- 
>Together with the above expierenced users use the source code. In
>the case of Shockwave Flash you can use the function prototype together
>with the Flash API and start coding. And oh well, the documentation people
>have to do some other work thei are paid for. 
------end of quote------ 

At 00:02 22.5.2000 -0200, Manuel Lemos wrote the following:
-------------------------------------------------------------- 
>Hello Egon,
>
>
>On 21-May-00 18:35:25, you wrote:
>
> >All Flash functions have an function prototype, which will tell such
> >newbies a lot. Most things can be found in the source code. Just read it.
------end of quote------ 

At 00:48 22.5.2000 -0700, Ron Chmara wrote the following:
-------------------------------------------------------------- 
>You also have to learn more about why PHP is, quite
>frankly, one of the best options available. 
------end of quote------ 




____________________________________________________________
Cynic:

A member of a group of ancient Greek philosophers who taught
that virtue constitutes happiness and that self control is
the essential part of virtue.

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