Re: [PHP4BETA] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP4BETA] PHP 4.0.0 Release packaged

Cause it´s me Rasmus answered to in that shocking reply, I´ll provide my 
thoughts:
Q) I did not knew that no free compiler is available for Win32 with 
which building is a very easy procedure.
A) Rasmus answered that there is not any (he knows of) and I took the 
*challange* to build it with MSVC (it´s really not a challange).
The building instructions are complete and all snapshots compiled 
without problems.

I do have to use M$ Windows, there are a lot of products my company has 
licensed and I do not prefer Linux as my desktop system, but I do prefer 
using Linux as a server system.

At home I use *Win32*, self compiled *PHP4* snapshots and *MySQL*.
At work I use *Linux*, admin compiled *PHP4* snapshots and *Adabas+ 
Oracle...*

I do need the same functionality on both system to work properly. I do 
not request any core devoloper to make Win32 builds for me and I do not 
ask questions I did not check before.

But it´s a fact that some functionality is not documented. I do not 
think of C source code and undocumented functions and missing protos...

1) Information for Win32 users: a small note "requirements" on the "how 
to build...win32" page would help.
Requirements: Win32, MSVC 6, reading this page...
2) Additional information for Win32 users: Although I tried to find out 
how to build a *gd.dll*, I could not find out how and no one replied to 
my questions. Linux stuff is documented, but neither on boutell´s page 
nor on php.net exists a small doc on how to do this.
I´ve resigned - if people do not tell me how to do this and I´m not able 
to find any information, I think I do not need this :)
3) Information on new projects like SWF, pear, DOM XML and so on...

I even think docs could consist of a lot of keywords like product 
descriptions. I don´t think there is a full documentation needed at 
first for every new feature, but small notes on *what´s it for* and *how 
to use it* would satisfy a bunch of users.

Rasmus was right, I´m using a commercial platform and I´m bound almost 
to commercial products, but he shouldn´t require me to change my 
platform, because PHP is intended to work on Win32 too and disregarding 
the needs of Win32 won´t help PHP to conquer the Win32 market.

My experience is that PHP works well with Win32 it could become very 
popular not just on Linux/Unix maschines.
If users could better participate at the documentation and development 
process theses debates wouldn´t arise too often :)

Also I would suppose to provide binary snapshots builds for Win32 for 
the reason that there is no free compiler available for Windoze and I 
think one could batch this process that nobody need to take care about 
building binaries. If some builds are broken... that´s life.

regards


wrote:

> > I will use a 'real-world example here. I remember this post, because the 
> > answer *shocked* me. I would expect such an answer from a 16 years old boy. 
> > Not from a mature man. 
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php4beta&m=95754702605916&w=2 )
> > 
> > >List:     php4beta
> > >Subject:  Re: [PHP4BETA] building php4 snap on win32
> > >From:     Rasmus Lerdorf <[email protected]>
> > >Date:     2000-05-05 17:15:50
> > >[Download message RAW]
> > >
> > > > our admin today built the latest php4 snap for Linux and said that there 
> > > > were several bugs which hindered compiling.
> > > > He patched them and built PHP4 for Linux.
> > >
> > >I hope he submitted appropriate bug reports.
> > >
> > > > I want to use the latest PHP4 version too, but I´m develeoping in Win32 
> > > > and never built something on Win32.
> > > > Can I use the latest snaps for this (I need gd 1.8.1 support)?
> > > > Can someone provide me an URL where to retrieve a compiler for building 
> > > > PHP4 (I do not want to install the MSDN)...
> > >
> > >You are pretty much stuck with MSVC.  You are using a commercial OS, so
> > >you are stuck with commercial tools as well.  Sorry.  There are plenty of
> > >free operating systems and tools available to you.
> > >
> > >-Rasmus
> 
> Excuse me?  What is shocking about this response?  The fact that I
> reminded someone to tell us about bugs or that I told someone that they
> needed MSVC to compile PHP for Windows?  There are no decent free
> development environment for Windows.  This is not something we can do much
> about.  And we do no provide snapshot binary releases for Windows.  There
> is nothing immature about this response.  It was a calm and reasoned
> response letting someone know the state of things.  
> 
> The only real complaint you can have here is that we should be providing
> Windows snapshots for people.  However, we also do not provide compiled
> snapshots for Unix.  The snapshots we provide are source-code only and
> they are actually not Unix specific in any way.  We provide source code
> snapshots and if you have MSVC you can compile these on NT with a bit of
> effort.  We even provide pretty detailed instructions for doing so.  See:
> 
>   http://www.php.net/version4/win32build.php
> 
> I don't doubt that there have been some cheeky responses to Windows users
> every now and then, but you decided to pick on one of my responses which
> was a far cry from being unfair in any way.  Someone wanted free tools to
> build PHP for Windows and I told them they didn't really exist, but if the
> tools being free was an important aspect they were available under free
> operating systems.
> 
> -Rasmus
> 
> 
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