Re: [UG-ADMINS] What about making this list public on https://www.mail-archive.com/

Like Beth, I didn't realize all the messages in this list are publicly
searchable. I agree with her concerns about keeping the list somewhat
private because of sensitive discussions.

One other consideration for keeping things more private is that book
publishers, companies, or conference organizers might want to keep user
group offers/discounts/sponsorships private to the user group leaders to
pass along to their members at their discretion. This might be information
that isn't meant to be distributed to (or searchable by) the masses.


On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 11:08 AM, Cal Evans <[email protected]> wrote:

> 1: That is a good question, we need to decide. My suggestion would be that
> a couple of people be the list "Owners" (more than 1 to reduce the
> bus factor) and then if we want, a couple more as managers.
> 2: Very low barrier to entry. Tell us who you are and what group you are in
> the leadership of. I'm not even suggesting that we verify. It works on the
> honor system.
> 3: This is a list for UG leaders. I agree with Beth that every now and
> then, we need to be able to have discussions that are not in a public
> archive and are not available to anyone outside of th egroup.
> 4: I don't see it as introducing any new politics. If we have people on
> this list that aren't UG leaders, gotta wonder why. It's not like there's a
> lot of FOMO around people wondering where to find venue or sponsors. :)
>
> Cheers!
> =C=
>
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Cal Evans <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > 1: That is a good question, we need to decide. My suggestion would be
> that
> > a couple of people be the list "Owners" (more than 1 to reduce the
> > bus factor) and then if we want, a couple more as managers.
> > 2: Very low barrier to entry. Tell us who you are and what group you are
> > in the leadership of. I'm not even suggesting that we verify. It works on
> > the honor system.
> > 3: This is a list for UG leaders. I agree with Beth that every now and
> > then, we need to be able to have discussions that are not in a public
> > archive and are not available to anyone outside of th egroup.
> > 4: I don't see it as introducing any new politics. If we have people on
> > this list that aren't UG leaders, gotta wonder why. It's not like
> there's a
> > lot of FOMO around people wondering where to find venue or sponsors. :)
> >
> > Cheers!
> > =C=
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 10:49 AM, Adam Culp <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> My fears, and why I can't +1, are:
> >>
> >>  * Who will hold the "keys to the kingdom"? Because this could take a
> >>    great deal of management.
> >>  * How would someone be "vetted" if they ask to join? #coolkids
> >>  * A private list, while allowing open communication withheld from our
> >>    UG members, would promote an atmosphere of exclusion into something
> >>    that should be open and free.
> >>  * This would introduce politics into an area of PHP that has not had
> >>    this in the past.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Adam Culp
> >> 561-870-6361
> >> Twitter: @adamculp
> >> Tech Blog: http://geekyboy.com
> >> Podcast: http://rungeekradio.com
> >> Running Blog: http://crazyfloridian.com
> >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/adamculp
> >>
> >>
> >> On 01/30/2016 10:37 AM, Cal Evans wrote:
> >>
> >>> I agree with Michael. My goal is to move to better tooling. Since
> >>> php.net
> >>> in the past has resisted changing anything, improving our UX will
> require
> >>> moving off of php.net. I did not mean move away from PHP itself or
> >>> disassociate with php.net.
> >>>
> >>> =C=
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 10:32 AM, Michael Cullum <[email protected]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Lorna,
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd ask what does 'away from the main php.net project' mean?
> >>>>
> >>>> My perception of the change is just that we're moving onto a different
> >>>> tool
> >>>> and would maintain the same affiliation with php.net that the
> ug-admins
> >>>> group as there presently which is, as far as I can tell, just being
> >>>> linked
> >>>> to from php.net (and perhaps coherance to any polices php.net has
> about
> >>>> usage of lists.php.net).
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Michael C
> >>>>
> >>>> On 30 January 2016 at 15:24, Lorna Mitchell <[email protected]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> By moving the list away from php.net, are we moving the user groups
> >>>>> away
> >>>>> from the main php.net project, or just choosing a different tooling?
> >>>>> I
> >>>>>
> >>>> am
> >>>>
> >>>>> unclear what structure a new list would be part of, so I'm unsure
> about
> >>>>> this move but I'm definitely +1 on making it easier for user group
> >>>>>
> >>>> leaders
> >>>>
> >>>>> to be in touch with one another.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lorna
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 30 January 2016 at 08:46, Sean Prunka <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It seems that all the current venues are effectively open to the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> public.
> >>>>
> >>>>> This list, for public announcements.
> >>>>>> IRC, for various discussions.
> >>>>>> Slack, for inter-group coordination.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Perhaps keeping all of these and adding a "closed" group mailing
> list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> for
> >>>>
> >>>>> leadership concerns, advice, and the like might not be a bad idea.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Each venue currently available (and proposed) adds value to a
> >>>>>> different
> >>>>>> aspect of UG leadership and/or "daily" operations.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I do also recognize that have to many disparate venues of
> >>>>>> communication
> >>>>>> leads to disorganization, confusion, and the potential for
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> cross-posting
> >>>>
> >>>>> and mis-posting.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm not sure where the happy medium exists.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --Sean
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016, 03:23 Andreas Heigl <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Sean.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Am 30.01.16 um 08:05 schrieb Sean Prunka:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> It sounds like there is a strong desire for a public facing
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> presence
> >>>>
> >>>>> that
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> is [perhaps] more accessible to new UGs and to the community at
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> large
> >>>>
> >>>>> than
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> this list currently is;
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> But at the same time, there is a desire for a private discussion
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> area
> >>>>
> >>>>> where
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> we can "talk shop" about things specific to UG admins that do not
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> need
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> be (and in some cases, perhaps should not be) publicly
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> readable/accessible.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Is there a convenient way to both have our cake and eat it too?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I don't think there's a way to have *both* approaches in one single
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> list.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> There is this list for UG-Admins with announcments and infos that is
> >>>>>>> publicly available (if you know where to search for it) and there's
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>
> >>>>> IRC-Channel #phpgroups (which is always rather quiet). It's the "old
> >>>>>>> school" INformation channel and especially the Mailinglist
> sometimes
> >>>>>>> contains material that should not be publicly available in my eyes.
> >>>>>>> Every Person running a usergroup should be registered here.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And than there's the phpug-slack team at https://phpug.slack.com
> [1]
> >>>>>>> where not only the usergroup-leaders are welcome to join but also
> the
> >>>>>>> usergroup-members. I set that team up as part of php.ug to enable
> >>>>>>> usergroups to easily interact with one another and to allow easy
> >>>>>>> interaction between different usergroups. It has *never* been
> though
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> as
> >>>>
> >>>>> a replacement to this mailinglist but as an addition! So far it seems
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> work out. So that would be a more public approach that is strongly
> >>>>>>> frequented especially by new usergroups.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And those two "solutions" can perfectyl coexist in my eyes. Or do
> you
> >>>>>>> think otherwise?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Cheers
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Andreas
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [1] Get an invitation to the slack team from
> >>>>>>> http://murmuring-forest-7062.herokuapp.com/
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
>