Re: Nature of this list

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I must have skipped the previous e-mails when all of this discussion about
swearing started. I think there are times when a good curse word most
adequately describes a situation, but these instances are exceedingly rare.
When I look back in history and think of some barring  my rights to vote or
the starving masses of France glaring up at Marie Antionette's window or
something like that I am totally for a good shout of "You dirty sons of a
b****!" However, in everyday conversation, and this goes for mailing lists,
foul potty-mouthed language is just  not appropriate.

And in truth, there are ALWAYS limits to freedom of expression depending
upon the venue. For instance, it is illegal to scream "Fire!" in a theater
if there is indeed no fire. It is illegal to call up someone and make
harassing or threatening statements. Etc., etc. The rules of the venue
determine the freedom. In most cases, if you are in the U.S., the limits on
freedom of speech are normally very few and have more to do with public and
personal safety.  The Internet and other social gatherings on the web have
to set their own standards. The restriction on swearing in many places is
among them.

On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Brian Fraser <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 7:37 PM, Shlomi Fish <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Brian, and all.
>>
>>
>> Well, there's a difference between repressing emotion (which is saying
>> "No! I
>> am not feeling this way now") and realising you're feeling something and
>> acting in a rational manner in accordance or opposite the emotion. I many
>> times was frustrated at open source software applications having annoying
>> bugs
>> and thought with many F-words and curse words, but when phrasing the bug
>> report, I phrased it politely, rationally, and factually (not always
>> though,
>> of course).
>>
>> Emotions are nature's guidelines, and should not be repressed, and one
>> should
>> not feel guilty for feeling anything (Sermon on the Mount/etc. put aside),
>> including not a desire for murder and mayhem. But acting based on these
>> emotions by words or deed may not be a good idea.
>>
>>
> You could have phrased yourself more calmly.
>
>
> Hey Shlomi.
>
> What part of my reply, exactly, was not calm or rational? "Profanity is
> expression, which is both trivial and all-important; it's a flavor of words,
> like poetry or song. They all have impact in their own way, but we should no
> more condemn an obscenity shouted in frustration than we would poetry
> whispered in love." As you imply, there's a time and place for every kind of
> language. I wouldn't be screaming profanity in a business meeting (although
> my last PM was extremely fond of this...) but frankly, I thought better of
> the list - I assumed we were all adults and wouldn't be getting our knickers
> in a twist over a couple of words.
>
> (If I wasn't calm, rather than addressing your mail, I'd have some strong
> words to say about you and a horse)
>
> In any case, I still await some links to this rude behavior towards a
> beginner.
>
> Also, uh, why wouldn't I read your entire message..?
>
> Brian.
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,


Joel Limardo

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I must have skipped the previous e-mails when all of this discussion about =
swearing started. I think there are times when a good curse word most adequ=
ately describes a situation, but these instances are exceedingly rare. When=
 I look back in history and think of some barring =A0my rights to vote or t=
he starving masses of France glaring up at Marie Antionette&#39;s window or=
 something like that I am totally for a good shout of &quot;You dirty sons =
of a b****!&quot; However, in everyday conversation, and this goes for mail=
ing lists, foul potty-mouthed language is just =A0not appropriate.=A0<div>
<br></div><div>And in truth, there are ALWAYS limits to freedom of expressi=
on depending upon the venue. For instance, it is illegal to scream &quot;Fi=
re!&quot; in a theater if there is indeed no fire. It is illegal to call up=
 someone and make harassing or threatening statements. Etc., etc. The rules=
 of the venue determine the freedom. In most cases, if you are in the U.S.,=
 the limits on freedom of speech are normally very few and have more to do =
with public and personal safety. =A0The Internet and other social gathering=
s on the web have to set their own standards. The restriction on swearing i=
n many places is among them. =A0<br>
<div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Brian =
Fraser <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">fraserbn=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div>On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 7:37 PM, Shlomi Fish <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</=
a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Brian, and all.<div class=3D"im"><br>
<br>Well, there&#39;s a difference between repressing emotion (which is say=
ing &quot;No! I<br>
am not feeling this way now&quot;) and realising you&#39;re feeling somethi=
ng and<br>
acting in a rational manner in accordance or opposite the emotion. I many<b=
r>
times was frustrated at open source software applications having annoying b=
ugs<br>
and thought with many F-words and curse words, but when phrasing the bug<br=
>
report, I phrased it politely, rationally, and factually (not always though=
,<br>
of course).<br>
<br>
Emotions are nature&#39;s guidelines, and should not be repressed, and one =
should<br>
not feel guilty for feeling anything (Sermon on the Mount/etc. put aside),<=
br>
including not a desire for murder and mayhem. But acting based on these<br>
emotions by words or deed may not be a good idea.<br>
=A0</div></blockquote><div class=3D"im"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">You =
could have phrased yourself more calmly.=A0</blockquote></div><div>
<div><br></div><div>Hey Shlomi.<br></div><div><br></div><div>What part of m=
y reply, exactly, was not calm or rational? &quot;Profanity is expression, =
which is both trivial and all-important; it&#39;s a flavor of words, like p=
oetry or song. They all have impact in their own way, but we should no more=
 condemn an obscenity shouted in frustration than we would poetry whispered=
 in love.&quot; As you imply, there&#39;s a time and place for every kind o=
f language. I wouldn&#39;t be screaming profanity in a business meeting (al=
though my last PM was extremely fond of this...) but frankly, I thought bet=
ter of the list - I assumed we were all adults and wouldn&#39;t be getting =
our knickers in a twist over a couple of words.</div>

</div><div><br></div><div>(If I wasn&#39;t calm, rather than addressing you=
r mail, I&#39;d have some strong words to say about you and a horse)</div><=
div>=A0</div><div>In any case, I still await some links to this rude behavi=
or towards a beginner.</div>

<div><br></div><div>
<div>Also, uh, why wouldn&#39;t I read your entire message..?</div><div><br=
></div><div>Brian.</div><div><br></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>Sincerely,<br><br><br>J=
oel Limardo<br><br>
</div></div>

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