ordering Japanese

[email protected] ("Mike Barborak") Wed, 3 May 2006 19:12:29 -0400
Newsgroups perl.i18n
Message-ID <00e101c66f07$1e7a8d00$6401a8c0@Surprise>
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Hi,

I am using Sadhiro Tomoyuki's Lingua::JA::Sort::JIS module to sort Japanese
names of stores. I have come close to achieving the order my client has
asked for but am having a little difficulty matching their request exactly.
The problem seems to be collating kana glyphs with manyogana glyphs. (Please
excuse me if I am misusing any terms - this is my first introduction to
Japanese.)

Here is an example of 13 store names ordered with
Lingua::JA::Sort::JIS::msort:

1. $B0K@*C0!!(BJR$B5~ETE9(B
2. $B%"%Z%C%/%9!!J!;3(B
3. $B%"%_%e%W%i%6!!</;yEg(B
4. $B%*%/%N!!00@n(B
5. $B$5$/$iLnI42_E9!!@gBf(B
6. $B$5$D$^20!!</;yEg(B
7. $B%9%?%s%9!!JF;R(B
8. $B$=$4$&!!?@8ME9(B
9. $B$=$4$&!!@iMUE9(B
10. $B$=$4$&!!Bg5\E9(B
11. $B$=$4$&!!2#IME9(B
12. $B%@%$%"%b%s%I%7%F%#%"%k%k!!3`86(B
13. $B%K%e!<%:!!7'K\(B

My client tells me that entry 1 should actually come after the 3rd entry and
before the fourth. From this description on manyogana, I'm thinking they're
saying that collation of the glyph $B0K(B should be based on its katakana
adaptation $B%$(B which makes sense:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manyogana

Note I'm basing many of my statements on staring at and comparing these
glyphs online and so I might be far off.

So my questions are:

1. Is my client correct in their ordering?
2. I believe I've tried all the combinations of collation levels and kanji
classes in the Lingua::JA::Sort::JIS jcmp function but have not achieved the
desired ordering. Have I perhaps missed the correct combination?
3. Is the solution to first convert the manyogana characters to katakana and
then do the msort? If so does anyone know of a Perl module to do this or a
nice reference that I could use more programmatically than the image on the
link above?
4. Can anyone think of any other glyphs or classes of Japanese glyphs
similar to manyogana that I should be worried about?

Thanks for any help you can give me!

Best,
Mike

P.S. The attachment is this same email but as a UTF-8 text file.

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	charset="iso-2022-jp"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-2022-jp">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2873" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D703055022-03052006>Hi,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =

class=3D703055022-03052006></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=3D703055022-03052006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>I&nbsp;am=20
using Sadhiro Tomoyuki's Lingua::JA::Sort::JIS module to sort Japanese =
names of=20
stores. I have come close to achieving the order my client has asked for =
but am=20
having a little difficulty matching their request exactly. The problem =
seems to=20
be collating kana glyphs with manyogana glyphs.&nbsp;(Please excuse me =
if I am=20
misusing any terms - this is my first introduction to=20
Japanese.)</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=3D703055022-03052006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=3D703055022-03052006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Here is an=20
example of 13 store names ordered with=20
Lingua::JA::Sort::JIS::msort:</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D703055022-03052006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D703055022-03052006>1. =
=1B$B0K@*C0!!=1B(JJR=1B$B5~ETE9=1B(J<BR>2.=20
=1B$B%"%Z%C%/%9!!J!;3=1B(J<BR>3. =1B$B%"%_%e%W%i%6!!</;yEg=1B(J<BR>4. =
=1B$B%*%/%N!!00@n=1B(J<BR>5. =1B$B$5$/$iLnI42_E9!!@gBf=1B(J<BR>6. =
=1B$B$5$D$^20!!</;yEg=1B(J<BR>7.=20
=1B$B%9%?%s%9!!JF;R=1B(J<BR>8. =1B$B$=3D$4$&!!?@8ME9=1B(J<BR>9. =
=1B$B$=3D$4$&!!@iMUE9=1B(J<BR>10. =1B$B$=3D$4$&!!Bg5\E9=1B(J<BR>11. =
=1B$B$=3D$4$&!!2#IME9=1B(J<BR>12.=20
=1B$B%@%$%"%b%s%I%7%F%#%"%k%k!!3`86=1B(J<BR>13. =
=1B$B%K%e!<%:!!7'K\=1B(J<BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D703055022-03052006>My =
client tells me=20
that entry 1 should actually come after the 3rd entry and before the =
fourth.=20
From this description on manyogana, I'm thinking they're saying that =
collation=20
of the glyph =1B$B0K=1B(J should be based on its katakana adaptation =
=1B$B%$=1B(J which makes=20
sense:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D703055022-03052006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D703055022-03052006><A=20
href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manyogana">http://en.wikipedia.org/w=
iki/Manyogana</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D703055022-03052006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D703055022-03052006>Note =
I'm=20
basing&nbsp;many of my statements on staring&nbsp;at and comparing these =
glyphs=20
online&nbsp;and so I might be far off.&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D703055022-03052006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D703055022-03052006>So my =
questions=20
are:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D703055022-03052006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D703055022-03052006>1. Is =
my client=20
correct in their ordering?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D703055022-03052006>2. I =
believe I've=20
tried all the combinations of collation levels and kanji classes in the=20
Lingua::JA::Sort::JIS jcmp function but have not achieved the desired =
ordering.=20
Have I perhaps missed the correct combination?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D703055022-03052006>3. Is =
the solution=20
to first convert the manyogana characters to katakana and then do the =
msort? If=20
so does anyone know of a Perl module to do this or a nice reference that =
I could=20
use more programmatically than the image on the link =
above?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D703055022-03052006>4. Can =
anyone think=20
of any other glyphs or classes of Japanese glyphs similar to =
manyogana&nbsp;that=20
I should be worried about?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D703055022-03052006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D703055022-03052006>Thanks =
for any help=20
you can give me!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D703055022-03052006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D703055022-03052006>Best,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D703055022-03052006>Mike</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D703055022-03052006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D703055022-03052006>P.S. =
The attachment=20
is this same email but as a UTF-8 text =
file.</DIV></SPAN></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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Hi,

I am using Sadhiro Tomoyuki's Lingua::JA::Sort::JIS module to sort =
Japanese=20
names of stores. I have come close to achieving the order my client has =
asked=20
for but am having a little difficulty matching their request exactly. =
The=20
problem seems to be collating kana glyphs with manyogana glyphs. (Please =
excuse=20
me if I am misusing any terms - this is my first introduction to =
Japanese.)

Here is an example of 13 store names ordered with =
Lingua::JA::Sort::JIS::msort:

1. =E4=BC=8A=E5=8B=A2=E4=B8=B9=E3=80=80JR=E4=BA=AC=E9=83=BD=E5=BA=97
2. =
=E3=82=A2=E3=83=9A=E3=83=83=E3=82=AF=E3=82=B9=E3=80=80=E7=A6=8F=E5=B1=B1
3. =
=E3=82=A2=E3=83=9F=E3=83=A5=E3=83=97=E3=83=A9=E3=82=B6=E3=80=80=E9=B9=BF=E5=
=85=90=E5=B3=B6
4. =E3=82=AA=E3=82=AF=E3=83=8E=E3=80=80=E6=97=AD=E5=B7=9D
5. =
=E3=81=95=E3=81=8F=E3=82=89=E9=87=8E=E7=99=BE=E8=B2=A8=E5=BA=97=E3=80=80=E4=
=BB=99=E5=8F=B0
6. =
=E3=81=95=E3=81=A4=E3=81=BE=E5=B1=8B=E3=80=80=E9=B9=BF=E5=85=90=E5=B3=B6
7. =E3=82=B9=E3=82=BF=E3=83=B3=E3=82=B9=E3=80=80=E7=B1=B3=E5=AD=90
8. =E3=81=9D=E3=81=94=E3=81=86=E3=80=80=E7=A5=9E=E6=88=B8=E5=BA=97
9. =E3=81=9D=E3=81=94=E3=81=86=E3=80=80=E5=8D=83=E8=91=89=E5=BA=97
10. =E3=81=9D=E3=81=94=E3=81=86=E3=80=80=E5=A4=A7=E5=AE=AE=E5=BA=97
11. =E3=81=9D=E3=81=94=E3=81=86=E3=80=80=E6=A8=AA=E6=B5=9C=E5=BA=97
12. =
=E3=83=80=E3=82=A4=E3=82=A2=E3=83=A2=E3=83=B3=E3=83=89=E3=82=B7=E3=83=86=E3=
=82=A3=E3=82=A2=E3=83=AB=E3=83=AB=E3=80=80=E6=A9=BF=E5=8E=9F
13. =E3=83=8B=E3=83=A5=E3=83=BC=E3=82=BA=E3=80=80=E7=86=8A=E6=9C=AC

My client tells me that entry 1 should actually come after the 3rd entry =
and=20
before the fourth. From this description on manyogana, I'm thinking =
they're=20
saying that collation of the glyph =E4=BC=8A should be based on its =
katakana adaptation=20
=E3=82=A4 which makes sense:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manyogana

Note I'm basing many of my statements on staring at and comparing these =
glyphs=20
online and so I might be far off.=20

So my questions are:

1. Is my client correct in their ordering?
2. I believe I've tried all the combinations of collation levels and =
kanji=20
classes in the Lingua::JA::Sort::JIS jcmp function but have not achieved =
the=20
desired ordering. Have I perhaps missed the correct combination?
3. Is the solution to first convert the manyogana characters to katakana =
and=20
then do the msort? If so does anyone know of a Perl module to do this or =
a nice=20
reference that I could use more programmatically than the image on the =
link=20
above?
4. Can anyone think of any other glyphs or classes of Japanese glyphs =
similar=20
to manyogana that I should be worried about?

Thanks for any help you can give me!

Best,
Mike

P.S. The attachment is this same email but as a UTF-8 text file.
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