Re: ordering Japanese

On Wed, 03 May 2006, Mike Barborak wrote:

> 1. =E4=BC=8A=E5=8B=A2=E4=B8=B9=E3=80=80JR=E4=BA=AC=E9=83=BD=E5=BA=97
> 2. =E3=82=A2=E3=83=9A=E3=83=83=E3=82=AF=E3=82=B9=E3=80=80=E7=A6=8F=E5=B1=
=B1
> 3. =E3=82=A2=E3=83=9F=E3=83=A5=E3=83=97=E3=83=A9=E3=82=B6=E3=80=80=E9=B9=
=BF=E5=85=90=E5=B3=B6
> 4. =E3=82=AA=E3=82=AF=E3=83=8E=E3=80=80=E6=97=AD=E5=B7=9D
> 5. =E3=81=95=E3=81=8F=E3=82=89=E9=87=8E=E7=99=BE=E8=B2=A8=E5=BA=97=E3=80=
=80=E4=BB=99=E5=8F=B0
> 6. =E3=81=95=E3=81=A4=E3=81=BE=E5=B1=8B=E3=80=80=E9=B9=BF=E5=85=90=E5=B3=
=B6
> 7. =E3=82=B9=E3=82=BF=E3=83=B3=E3=82=B9=E3=80=80=E7=B1=B3=E5=AD=90
> 8. =E3=81=9D=E3=81=94=E3=81=86=E3=80=80=E7=A5=9E=E6=88=B8=E5=BA=97
> 9. =E3=81=9D=E3=81=94=E3=81=86=E3=80=80=E5=8D=83=E8=91=89=E5=BA=97
> 10. =E3=81=9D=E3=81=94=E3=81=86=E3=80=80=E5=A4=A7=E5=AE=AE=E5=BA=97
> 11. =E3=81=9D=E3=81=94=E3=81=86=E3=80=80=E6=A8=AA=E6=B5=9C=E5=BA=97
> 12. =E3=83=80=E3=82=A4=E3=82=A2=E3=83=A2=E3=83=B3=E3=83=89=E3=82=B7=E3=83=
=86=E3=82=A3=E3=82=A2=E3=83=AB=E3=83=AB=E3=80=80=E6=A9=BF=E5=8E=9F
> 13. =E3=83=8B=E3=83=A5=E3=83=BC=E3=82=BA=E3=80=80=E7=86=8A=E6=9C=AC

> My client tells me that entry 1 should actually come after the 3rd entry =
and
> before the fourth. From this description on manyogana, I'm thinking they'=
re
> saying that collation of the glyph =E4=BC=8A should be based on its katak=
ana
> adaptation =E3=82=A4 which makes sense:

I wonder why. Can they give you a reason?

Are you sure something isn't being lost in the translation? The
first entry is read 'Isetan', so should be number one, though I'm
not a native Japanese speaker. I doubt they want them ordered by
on-yomi of the characters themselves.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manyogana

I feel this Ise, a place name, is closer to ateji than
Man'yougana, though probably it was originally Man'yougana.  The
same character is read the same way in the name, Ito.

> 3. Is the solution to first convert the manyogana characters to katakana =
and
> then do the msort?

I don't think so. At least not with ateji. I would regard the
reading here as a kun-yomi, rather than on-yomi, but likely am
wrong.

> 4. Can anyone think of any other glyphs or classes of Japanese glyphs
> similar to manyogana that I should be worried about?

Knowing Japanese collating rules would be useful. Something which
I don't know.

Man'yougana is historical, rather than productive, I believe.