Re: Karma, and fires

On 8/4/26 3:45 PM, Dude wrote:
> On 8/3/2026 1:21 PM, dart200 wrote:
>> On 8/3/26 10:27 AM, Dude wrote:
>>> On 8/2/2026 6:31 PM, Creon wrote:
>>>> At Sun, 2 Aug 2026 23:00:44 -0000 (UTC), Tara <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tara <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> Creon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> At Sun, 2 Aug 2026 12:57:40 -0400, Wilson 
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 8/2/2026 12:31 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 2 Aug 2026 12:21:43 -0400, Wilson <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/31/2026 6:34 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/31/26 3:11 PM, Tara wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> dart200 <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/31/26 1:28 PM, Tara wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 31, 2026 at 4:02:41?PM EDT, "Tara" 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 31, 2026 at 3:46:18?PM EDT, "dart200"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/31/26 12:35 PM, Tara wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 31, 2026 at 3:11:12?PM EDT, "dart200"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/31/26 11:25 AM, Julian wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 31/07/2026 19:06, Tara wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 31, 2026 at 12:40:32?PM EDT, "Wilson"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/30/2026 3:50 PM, Tara wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Julian <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 30/07/2026 19:56, Tara wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 2026 at 2:53:09?PM EDT, "Julian"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 30/07/2026 19:29, Tara wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 2026 at 2:04:17?PM EDT, "Julian"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sadly he was proved right. So was I. After I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> warned in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very pages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last year that government policy was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worsening the fire
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moorland, it gives me no pleasure to say: ‘I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told you so.’
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt Ridley
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Indigenous peoples in North America have been 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conrolling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> threat of wild
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fires with prescribed/controlled burns for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> centuries.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking to do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same in co-operation with our native 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people. We have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem doing this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> however because of the acessibility and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vastness of our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forests.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> country the size of Britain (and other European
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> countries), it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that controlled fires are a no brainer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are inaccessible fires in vast forests really a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think they're as likely good for the land's 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long term
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> health.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is that, but an uncontrolled fire can 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> massively grow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smoke to people populated areas.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A bit like a volcano.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The northeast US is hundreds of miles from the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wildfires yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we've had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serious air quality warnings this year and last. A 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few weeks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ago it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> literally dimmed the sun for several days, making 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clear day look cloudy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wildfires-smoke- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions-exposed-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> midwest-northeast-us/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Those pictures are not an exaggeration. That's what 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meanwhile the idiot treehuggers think they know 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what's best.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am an admitted tree hugger but I am also a realist 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one answer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here is controlled burning. Another is education and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strictly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enforced
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> laws
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> against those who are careless and start fires through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> laziness and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ignorance,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clearing vegetation around and near dwellings and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> building
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fire resistent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> homes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would probably be more effective than increasing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the price
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of petrol, gas and electricity for already stretched 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> workers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jooliean you truly are a useless fucking retard. this 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ofc isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> written
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for u cause ur determined to take ur damned ignorance 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grave, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the record:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not only are boreal forest are far too vast to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effectively mitigate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> increased risk from climate change, meaning we haven't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> engaging in serious fire suppression for the much of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forest so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _not_ the cause like cons desperate wants to believe; 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> controlled
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burns don't even effectively mitigate risk as the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ecology of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boreal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forest is different than a temperate one, so it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> requires fuel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> management
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strategies that are far more labor intensive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ummm. if you care to look back a bit, the problem with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boreal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forests (in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada) has already been addressed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why are you such a dumb fucking liar tara???
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all u discussed was the size of the forest, u did not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discuss the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the conventional controlled burns do not effectively 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mitigate fire
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in boreal forests, nor the increased costs of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> various techniques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that must be employed instead
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and you still haven't even after i've pointed it out in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> posts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clear evidence of refusing to face the facts like a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> retarded boomer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course we can't do anything about fires in the boreal 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forest.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given ffs We can only do what we can to protect the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boundaries. !!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Idiot!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> great so u never mentioned that to joolian or his 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mindbogglingly stupid
>>>>>>>>>>>>> article
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> u only admitted it after i pressed for several comments, so 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> i have no
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reason to believe u would have ever mentioned it otherwise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chill. I think I said something to the effect that we have 
>>>>>>>>>>>> vast forest
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> we can’t do anything about. Maybe not but I don’t understand 
>>>>>>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>>>>>>> you’re so
>>>>>>>>>>>> on about it. Pick the battles that matter. Or maybe just 
>>>>>>>>>>>> take a break eh
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the freaking article suggest climate change is not a cause of 
>>>>>>>>>>> wildfire
>>>>>>>>>>> implying it's largely a problem of mismanagement and 
>>>>>>>>>>> suppression...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> completely ignoring that boreal forests, where the largest 
>>>>>>>>>>> increase in
>>>>>>>>>>> risk is seen, are largely not managed anyways due to not only 
>>>>>>>>>>> the sheer
>>>>>>>>>>> size but also the fact that managing fuel costs ~10x that of 
>>>>>>>>>>> temperate
>>>>>>>>>>> forest. normal controlled burns aren't an option cause the 
>>>>>>>>>>> risks are
>>>>>>>>>>> just different.
>>>>>>>>>> I think the expectation is a warming climate will be dryer and 
>>>>>>>>>> that will
>>>>>>>>>> increase wildfires.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Satellite data only goes back to the 1980s. But there's solid 
>>>>>>>>>> scientific
>>>>>>>>>> evidence based on fire scar date from tree rings on old growth 
>>>>>>>>>> trees and
>>>>>>>>>> studies of sediment data that shows reconstructed wildfire 
>>>>>>>>>> history over
>>>>>>>>>> thousands of years.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That evidence indicates that during the 20th century in North 
>>>>>>>>>> America
>>>>>>>>>> there's been fewer acres burned than in previous periods. They're
>>>>>>>>>> calling it a "wildfire drought".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11811286/
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1112839109
>>>>>>>>>> https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3295264/
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/388852965
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Strange how you can come up with results that show the exact 
>>>>>>>>> opposite
>>>>>>>>> of accepted research.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That was literally accepted research.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That you apparently would do well to read.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11811286/
>>>>>>> Abstract
>>>>>>> Rapid increases in wildfire area burned across North American 
>>>>>>> forests
>>>>>>> pose novel challenges for managers and society. Increasing area 
>>>>>>> burned
>>>>>>> raises questions about whether, and to what degree, contemporary 
>>>>>>> fire
>>>>>>> regimes (1984–2022) are still departed from historical fire 
>>>>>>> regimes (pre-1880).[. . .]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since you seem to confuse the count of fires (quantitative) with
>>>>>>> the size of fires (qualitative), you are succumbing to a type II
>>>>>>> error.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW, the Tubbs Fire in 2017 -- for which we evacuated, and from 
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> parts of Santa Rosa burned down -- could have been kept near 
>>>>>>> Calistoga
>>>>>>> if it wasn't for the Santa Ana winds that turned it into a 
>>>>>>> firestorm.
>>>>>>> The burn path was similar to the Hanly fire of 1964, and you would
>>>>>>> be correct to say not enough was done to prevent a recurrence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW, there is a troll in another newsgroup that continues to
>>>>>>> say that he wishes California would burn.  This, because he
>>>>>>> disagrees with (and apparently envies) our politics, our
>>>>>>> economics, our technology...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When he, in Colorado, was finally threatened by a wildfire,
>>>>>>> I told him that a) I didn't want Colorado to burn, but that b)
>>>>>>> I hoped he would "die in a fire".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since then, I've had the worst week of "bad karma" of my life.
>>>>>>> My wife and I apparently contracted Covid-19 on the way home
>>>>>>> from our cruise, which means we are missing a gathering today
>>>>>>> that I'd been looking forward to for a couple of months.  We
>>>>>>> might also miss seeing AC/DC on Wednesday.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But that's not the worst of it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A couple of days ago, my favorite cat, Julie, died suddenly;
>>>>>>> whether by stroke, aneurysm, or cardiac issue we don't know.
>>>>>>> She just let out a moaning sound and collapsed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was probably something stress-related, since she had just
>>>>>>> interacted with Kazumi, one of our other cats -- she hissed
>>>>>>> at him to warn him to stay out of "her" room (my office).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Julie and I were very close.  She would perch on my shoulder
>>>>>>> and watch while I used the computer.  She was a "foster failure",
>>>>>>> where we had taken her off a friend's hands because the friend
>>>>>>> couldn't handle having another cat anymore.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Couldn't pet her when we first got her, as the previous
>>>>>>> environment was not very loving, I'm afraid...but over the
>>>>>>> years, she had learned to trust us, and I think she was
>>>>>>> the sweetest inky in Santa Rosa.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (She was with us when we evacuated for the Glass fire, a fire
>>>>>>> that I haven't even mentioned yet.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every time I’ve brought another animal into my life I know that the
>>>>>> inevitable will come. I’m sorry you’ve lost your Julie and I hope 
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> karma has run its course. For now anyway because it’s always a for 
>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S. don’t forget about the Rainbow Bridge. :)
>>>>
>>>> If there is a "God", then there has to be a Rainbow Bridge. :)
>>>>
>>>> I would say more about that, but it has gotten very dusty
>>>> in this room all of a sudden...
>>>>
>>>> Okay, I guess I can't leave it with that.  I'll just point
>>>> out that Heraclitus was writing of a "Logos" 500 BCE...and
>>>> no, it wasn't the one from John 1:1.
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraclitus
>>>>
>>>> I take it to mean "divine order" (which many scholars think
>>>> Heraclitus probably meant).  To me, that means the "Laws of Nature".
>>>>
>>>> If consciousness is an inherent property of the Cosmos,
>>>> it gives me comfort to know that she is will all of us now.
>>>>
>>> Every single cell in the universe is conscious. That's the ultimate 
>>> reality. Without consciousness nothing would exist in space or time.
>>>
>>> The idea that pets go to heaven is not so farfetched. YMMV.
>>
>> the idea of u going to heaven dud, however is pretty damn farfetched
>>
> You are literally larping as a white evangelical Messianic Jew!

i don't see any joos posting in alt.messianic

> It depends on what you mean by "heaven". Evangelical Messianic teaches 
> that "going to heaven" upon death is a temporary state, and the ultimate 
> eternal hope is bodily resurrection on a renewed physical earth.

  > so u think ur worthy of future resurrection dud???
  >
  > #god

-- 
why are we god?
let's end war 🙃