Re: Private Property

On 8/11/2026 3:05 PM, dart200 wrote:
> On 8/11/26 2:02 PM, Dude wrote:
>> On 8/11/2026 1:43 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>> On 8/11/26 11:49 AM, Dude wrote:
>>>> On 8/11/2026 10:35 AM, Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 8/10/2026 4:06 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/10/26 9:26 AM, Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/10/2026 12:03 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 11:43:59 -0400, Wilson <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 8/9/2026 6:12 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/9/26 11:28 AM, Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/9/2026 1:34 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/9/26 8:45 AM, Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> At its core, free enterprise and a market economy can be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reduced in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> many ways to an economic ideology centered around private 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> property.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It gives me extraordinary joy to see how our founders, in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> writing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Declaration of Independence, declared that all men were 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "endowed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, among 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> them are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here, the founders took the natural rights John Locke wrote 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> his Second Treatise of Government in 1690 – "lives, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> liberties, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> estates, which I call by the general name, property," and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> broadened
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it.  They presupposed that property was necessary for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> liberty and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the greater aspiration behind private property was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "pursuit of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> happiness" (what we call "human flourishing" in my tradition).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just weeks before the Declaration of Independence was written,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Mason had codified in the Virginia Declaration of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rights that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> acquiring and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> possessing property" were predicates to "pursuing and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> obtaining
>>>>>>>>>>>>> happiness and safety."  The founding fathers were not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> waxing and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> waning philosophically – well, they were not /only/ doing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that –
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they were expressing the lived experience of the settlers 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the new
>>>>>>>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The lived experience that served as the bedrock of our 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nation was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of private ownership driving incentives, of communal 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ownership
>>>>>>>>>>>>> discouraging productive work, and one where resentment was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> inevitable when rewards were equal, but effort was not. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Communal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ownership of property had failed in practice because it was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> first a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> failed theory.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Private property is a natural right that flows from our 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> earn, hold, possess, retain, and manage the fruits of our 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> own labor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It produces responsibility, stewardship, and abundance that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> align
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with human nature.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> David L. Bahnsen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> i love how capitalists love to jerk themselves off about 
>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom and
>>>>>>>>>>>> flourishing endlessly while ignoring the fact 7/8 are 
>>>>>>>>>>>> enslaved to a
>>>>>>>>>>>> nation-state system that coercively interferes with basic 
>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom of
>>>>>>>>>>>> movement
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> this world is a travesty of authoritarian control all you 
>>>>>>>>>>>> can do is
>>>>>>>>>>>> keep crying endlessly about private property, as violently 
>>>>>>>>>>>> owning
>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff is the _only_ principle you actually care about
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Self-defense is not the initiation of violence, and as it is 
>>>>>>>>>>> oriented
>>>>>>>>>>> towards the protection of life and the thriving of the human 
>>>>>>>>>>> person,
>>>>>>>>>>> it is a natural human right.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> you are _not_ your property
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Property as gained by the effort and work of a human being is
>>>>>>>>>>> inherently a part of that person's life. As such, defense of 
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> property is also a human right.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> even the person who first came up with that predicated that 
>>>>>>>>>> right to
>>>>>>>>>> mixing labor with land to claim property, on there being 
>>>>>>>>>> enough common
>>>>>>>>>> lands left for all to utilize...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> which we've gone so far past that you want to keep 7/8 people 
>>>>>>>>>> on this
>>>>>>>>>> planet chained to the nation state they were born in without 
>>>>>>>>>> even the
>>>>>>>>>> permission to leave.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone who attempts to take away one's property or other natural
>>>>>>>>>>> rights is an enabler of tyranny, and therefore an enemy of 
>>>>>>>>>>> life and of
>>>>>>>>>>> humanity.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not keeping them in their home countries. They just can't 
>>>>>>>>> all come
>>>>>>>>> here, that's all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ok, lets change the wording a little.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "you want to keep 7/8 people on this
>>>>>>>> planet chained to nation states where they can have no future, 
>>>>>>>> no hope
>>>>>>>> of improvement in their lives without even the permission to go
>>>>>>>> somewhere better."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, I don't want to keep them "chained to nation states". As far 
>>>>>>> as I'm concerned they are free to go anywhere that's willing to 
>>>>>>> accept them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> my god the endless stupidity of capitalist morons refusing to 
>>>>>> accept responsibility for the bullshit they preach...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> which ofc is expected. a honest person cannot hold the positions 
>>>>>> of sheeplefried capitalists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not even that attached to the idea of nation-states and kind 
>>>>>>> of like the idea of free places that are outside of the nation- 
>>>>>>> state.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In any case, no place is obligated to accept everyone that wants 
>>>>>>> to go there. The current citizens get a say in the matter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> you _are_ the fucking problem wilson. if the richest country on 
>>>>>> the planet can't "afford" basic freedom of movement, then how in 
>>>>>> the fuck do you expect others to follow???
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ur pathetic "well-wishings" are meaningless platitudes compares to 
>>>>>> the subethical positions you hold, which are directly causal in 
>>>>>> chaining 7/8 people on the planet to the nation states of their 
>>>>>> birth, something they have _zero_ choice
>>>>>
>>>>> Go get your consensus and then get back to me.
>>>>>
>>>> Over 99.9% of all people live in nation states. It's up to them to 
>>>> take care of their own, or not.
>>>>
>>>> The US has no business interfering with any nation states and their 
>>>> private property or internal affairs.
>>>
>>> the US spent most a century interfering with internal affairs to 
>>> ensure private property stands as a global norm, no matter the cost. 
>>> it's the _only_ thing u fucking braindead apes care about
>>>
>> Let me be clear:
>>
>> Libertarians strongly support staying out of international wars and 
> 
> so why'd u elect trump dumbass?
> 
>> foreign affairs. We believe in a foreign policy of non-intervention, 
>> peaceful trade, and a strong national defense - rather than foreign 
>> military involvement or nation-building.
>>
> 
> you don't even believe in ending tariffs let alone opening borders
> 
Obviously, extended conflicts and foreign entanglements lead to bigger 
government power, higher taxes, and a loss of personal freedoms at home.

Take care of your own business.